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<mwxhtml><wx:metadata><title>Oral Testimony of NIKUZE Beatrice</title><generator type="gsmcreator">gsmcreator</generator><indexed>yes</indexed><abstract>The oral testimony of NIKUZE Beatrice, a survivor of the Genocide Against the Tutsi,recorded by the Kigali Genocide Memorial in Kigali, Rwanda. The testimony discusses early memories
      of childhood and family, discrimination and persecution of Tutsis before the Genocide, the worst atrocities during the Genocide, suffering and witnessing human rights abuses, surviving the
      Genocide, and life after the Genocide. The testimony is given in Kinyarwanda.</abstract><lang/><thumbnail src="kmc00066-thumbnail.jpg"/><categories/></wx:metadata><gm:gml>
  <gm:metadata>
    <id>Kmc00066/kmc00066_vid2</id>
    <dc:title>Oral Testimony of NIKUZE Beatrice</dc:title>
    <sequence num="2" total="3"/>
    <dc:abstract>The oral testimony of NIKUZE Beatrice, a survivor of the Genocide Against the Tutsi,recorded by the Kigali Genocide Memorial in Kigali, Rwanda. The testimony discusses early memories
      of childhood and family, discrimination and persecution of Tutsis before the Genocide, the worst atrocities during the Genocide, suffering and witnessing human rights abuses, surviving the
      Genocide, and life after the Genocide. The testimony is given in Kinyarwanda.</dc:abstract>
    <contributors/>
    <dc:publisher>Kigali Genocide Memorial</dc:publisher>
    <dates/>
    <language code="kin"/>
    <rights>Kigali Genocide Memorial</rights>
    <subjectheadings>
      <subjectheading>Genocide--Rwanda--History--20th century</subjectheading>
      <subjectheading>Genocide-Rwanda--Survivor</subjectheading>
      <subjectheading>Testimony--Rwanda</subjectheading>
      <subjectheading>Tutsi (African people)--Interviews</subjectheading>
      <subjectheading>Tutsi (African people)--Crimes against--Rwanda</subjectheading>
      <subjectheading>Rwanda--Ethnic Relations--History--20th Century</subjectheading>
      <subjectheading>Rwanda--History--Civil War, 1994--Atrocities</subjectheading>
    </subjectheadings>
    <dc:creator>NIKUZE Beatrice</dc:creator>
    <formats/>
  </gm:metadata>
  <gm:gplayer type="rtmp" id="video2" src="rtmp://streaming.lib.utexas.edu/hrda-open/mp4:kmc/kmc00066/kmc00066-vid2.mp4" img="" width="480" height="360" style="style1" expand="true"/>
  <gm:itext type="toc" title="View Topics " player="video2">
    <gm:tm start="01:02" stop="" player="">Discrimination and Violence During Kayibanda's Regime 
      <gm:tm start="01:02" stop="" player="">Killings in 1970 
      <gm:tm start="01:16" stop="" player="">Killing My Uncle Munyambo at Nyamata</gm:tm></gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="04:37" stop="" player="">Hiding in the Night</gm:tm></gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="05:06" stop="" player="">Political Parties and Meetings 
      <gm:tm start="08:28" stop="" player="">Home Displacement</gm:tm></gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="10:24" stop="" player="">Death threats of My family 
      <gm:tm start="08:46" stop="" player="">My Husband</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="10:25" stop="" player="">My Mother</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="10:50" stop="" player="">My Father</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="11:01" stop="" player="">Their Dignified Burial</gm:tm></gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="12:45" stop="" player="">Access to health care 
      <gm:tm start="12:47" stop="" player="">My Child who Survived</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="13:44" stop="" player="">King Faycal Treatment</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="16:49" stop="" player="">The Impact of Joining AVEGA</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="15:41" stop="" player="">Working on Hutu-Owned Farms without remuneration</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="27:27" stop="" player="">Helping Each Other in AVEGA</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="28:58" stop="" player="">Getting Married After the Genocide</gm:tm></gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="21:51" stop="" player="">Justice and the Future of Rwanda 
      <gm:tm start="18:34" stop="" player="">Reconciliation and the Gacaca Courts</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="25:00" stop="" player="">Message to the Orphaned Survivors</gm:tm></gm:tm>
  </gm:itext>
  <gm:itext type="toc" title="Tables of Contents" player="video2">
    <gm:tm start="00:59" stop="" player="">Pre-Genocide Experience(Continued from vid1) 
      <gm:tm start="01:02" stop="" player="">Discrimination and Persecution  
      <gm:tm start="08:38" stop="" player="">Flight to the ETO</gm:tm></gm:tm></gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="09:13" stop="" player="">Genocide Experience 
      <gm:tm start="09:38" stop="" player="">The Death of My Family</gm:tm></gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="10:57" stop="" player="">Post-Genocide 
      <gm:tm start="11:00" stop="" player="">Burial and exhumation</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="12:40" stop="" player="">Health care</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="18:38" stop="" player="">Unity and Reconciliation, Gacaca and Justice 
      <gm:tm start="13:45" stop="" player="">Genocidal Ideology in King Faycal Hospital</gm:tm></gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="23:26" stop="" player="">The Future of our Country 
      <gm:tm start="25:05" stop="" player="">Vision for Young Orphan Survivors</gm:tm></gm:tm></gm:tm>
  </gm:itext>
  <gm:itext type="transcript" title="Ubuhamya bwanditse" player="video2">
    <gm:tm start="00:05" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Ariko hari ukuntu twigeze kuganira umbaza ngo mbega mbere y'itsembatsemba n'itsembabwoko naba narabonye iki?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="00:19" stop="" player="">FREDY:  Nicyo kibazo naringiye ku kubaza.Watubwiye ko wavutse muri 1967, ibyo aribyo byose har'igihe abatutsi batotezagwa kugeza muri 1973 nubwo wari
      mutoya hari ibyo waba warabonye watubwira muri makeya ubuzima mwarimo kugeza muri 1990 wenda, noneho tukaza gukomeza.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="01:02" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Yee, muri za 1970 nari umwana harimo abacu batuvuyemo icyo gihe, kuko ariho data wacu witwaga Munyambo, bamukuye murugo bamujyana i Nyamata icyo
      gihe twabaga mu Bugesera… twabaga i Bugesera.Kuko ndibuka ko nyogokuru yavugaga ngo, ngo: "Kayibanda yavuyeho hagiyeho Habyarimana ngo habayeho ka coup d'état."Ariko icyo gihe twa…ndibuka ko
      amazu amwe bayatwikagaga twarebaga i Nduga, hakurya batwitse.Data wacu baramutwara bamujyana i Nyamata. Icyo gihe papa yari akiriho, aravuga ngo: "reka tubakurikire tugende turebe iyo
      babashyira," twaragiye tujya i Nyamata, twamaze kugera i Nyamata ikintu bakoze ndibuka ko hari ibintu by'imiti ibingibi byica amasazi cyangwa ibintu bya kera, bicaga ngo n'ibibugu, baje
      kubipuriza mu Bantu aho ngaho bari bafashe b'Abatutsi, ndabyibuka ko aribyo byabishe ariko data wacu we bamwishe bari bamukubise ibyo nibyo nibuka. Bari hariya i Nyamata ariko abandi bishwe
      n'umuti bitaga ngo Tsetse.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="03:02" stop="" player="">Freddy: Ntabwo byigeze bigera ku babyeyi bawe? Ngo babe batotezwa…</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="03:07" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Oya ku babyeyi bange, usibye ko papa yaje guhungira i Burundi, yagiye yo igihe kinini yaje mfite imyaka itandatu yari yarahunze. Ubwo nyuma yabwo
      naje kumva ngo habaye amahoro ariko na… ibyinshi ntabyo nzi byakomeje kuba, ariko icyo nzi ni uko abenshi bari i Nyamata nzi, nibo nabonye bapfuye babafungiye ahantu, ahantu hafunganye cyane,
      hari harimo abagore abana, abahungu n'abagabo bakuze.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="03:58" stop="" player="">Freddy: Aho i Nyamata se mwarahagumye kugeza …?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="04:01" stop="" player="">Beatrice: I Nyamata, twahabaye ukwezi…ukwezi nibwo batangaga ihumure nyuma duhita dusubira iwacu i Kanazi aho twari tuvuye tuza ahongaho i Nyamata. I Kanazi
      ahongaho niho twasubiyeyo. Tuvuye i Nyamata.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="04:23" stop="" player="">Freddy: Mugezeyo se mwahasanze iryo humure koko ari ihumuure cyangwa ibindi …?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="04:28" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Nta bindi bintu usibye ko bamwe, abagabo bamwe n' abasore bararaga hanze barare biraririye; gusa icyo nibuka ni uko byageraga ninjoro bakadufata
      twebwe abana bakadushyira mu rwina, ndibuka ko badushyiraga mu rwina bakadushyiraho ibintu by'amakoma gutyo. Nibyo nibuka.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="04:57" stop="" player="">Freddy: Noneho bigeze mu gihe cy'amashyaka ari nabwo havukaka imvururu..  </gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="05:03" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Ok,nasimbutse,ariko mu gihe cy'amashyaka bwo nyine habaye ibindi bindi nabyo, bakoreshaga za meeting ariko twebwe abanyarwa..rubanda rugufiya
      ahari, twumvaga yuko nta kibi cyari kiri...cyari kiriho cy'umuhutu cyangwa umututsi. Nkanjye n'ubwo nari narabibonye muri icyo gihe muri za mirongo irindwi [1970],ariko icyo gihe ibintu byari
      byaranyibagiye sinarinzi kuvuga ngo Umuhutu n'Umututsi, kuko nabonaga abenshi basabanaga bashyingiranaga. Nyuma yabwo ibyo by'amashyaka niho naje kubibona hariho za M.D.R za...za  M.R.N.D
      za P.S.D,za P.D.C mbese amashyaka menshi. Ariko yaje kwikora hamwe noneho P.D.S ,M.D.R aza kurwanya na P.L,arwanya M.R.N.D. Ubwo nibo baje kujijisha abantu nka rubanda rugufiya, bakumva yuko
      M.R.N.Dbayirwanya bari kurwanya i Kinani.  Ariko nyuma ya...Habyarimana yo gupfa niho ya mashyaka yaje kwibumbira hamwe akora ikintu kimwe. Akora Genocide,ariko ubundi mbere bakora
      amashyaka amashyaka ubwayo niyo yarwanaga. Uri mw'ishyaka P.L akakurwanya ; uri mw' ishyaka P.S.D,bakakurwanya kuko utabaga uva inda imwe, kuko utabaga uri M.D.R power. Hari M.D.R itari power
      hakaba na M.D.R power. Ibyo byose bya… hari M.D.R yarwanyaga M.D.R power ariyo yarwanyaga na M.R.N.D; P.S.D ariyo kwa Gatabazi aribwo bamwiciraga hariya Kicukiro. Nibwo hari icyo gihe byaje
      gutera akavururu mu baturage, noneho nibwo batangiraga kugenda bafata abana b'abasore bahuye mu nzira, babica harimo nabo biciraga muri Kajeke, mu gihe cy'amashyaka bakoze za Meeting. Iyo
      M.R.N.D na M.D.R, byabaga byakoze za meeting, ubwo icyo gihe byanze bikunze ntago haburaga mo abantu bapfaga. Bashombaga abantu b'a- basore ugategereza kanaka araza ugaheba, harimo abagabo
      benshi bagendaga batwara, bakajya kubica bakabica amahushuka ukumva ngo umurambo wa kanaka uraha n'aha, habaye imvururu cya icyo gihe nabwo.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="08:15" stop="" player="">Freddy: Watubwiye ko umugabo wawe baje ku mutwara ese bamutwaye mu gihe cya Genocide nyirizina cyangwa ni mbere?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="08:22" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Eh ! Bamutwaye mu gihe cya Genocide kuko mbere twebwe twahunze mbere y'amashyaka,amashyaka aba. Nibwo twahunze, Bucyana apfa nibwo twavuye iwacu,
      turahunga turagenda tujya kuri paroisse,umugabo...umugabo wanjye nibwo yaje kudusanga kuri paroisse twarahungiyeyo. Nyuma yabwo akajya agenda areba hanze uko bimeze, ariko ubwo Habyarimana apfa
      yapfuye kuri taliki esheshatu turi kuri paroisse,aribwo padiri Peterisi yatubwiraga ngo mujye muri ETO, ubwo umugabo wanjye we yaraye ahongaho.Mu guhungira muri ETO nibwo baje barahamukura
      ahavanywe n'umugabo witwaga John wo mu Nyakabanda, amubwira ngo naze amuherekeze,ariko kubera ko twari duturanye ariko niwe wamwiyiciye. Yishwe n'uwo mugabo John n'undi mugabo witwaga
      Nduhira,w'umupagasi wabaga  Kicukiro, bamwishe mbere yo kutuzamura ngo batujyane i Nyanza bamuvanye muri ETO.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="10:12" stop="" player="">Freddy: Watubwiye ko babajyanye ese waba uzi urupfu Mama wawe yapfuyemo ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="10:25" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Mama nyine na...nibyo nababwiye nyine, we yabateye umujinya baramurashe. Yarabatutse cyane baramurasa. Bamurashe mu ijoro ricyeye...baramurashe
      Inkotanyi bucya zitugeraho.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="10:46" stop="" player="">Freddy: Papa ariko we?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="10:50" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Papa we…papa wanjye yari yarapfuye kera ntabwo yigeze yicwa na Genocide.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="10:56" stop="" player="">Freddy: Ese abawe washoboye kubashyingura mu cyubahiro? Ari abatawe mu cyobo ari aba…</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="11:03" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Abenshi twa…narabashyinguye, usibye umugabo wanjye niwe ntazi iyo ari, ntabwo nzi aho ari kugeza na n'ubu. Uwo mwana witwa Bibi, wo kwa…w'umugabo
      witwa Alphonse niwe wambwiye ati: "umugabo wawe baramwishe." Urabona icyo gihe nta…sinabashije kugirango ndebe umurambo we aho wari uri, wenda ngo mbe navuga ngo bamukurure bamushyira aha
      n'aha. Niba yarariwe n'imbwa, niba yaragiye mu bimodoka nk'uko batundaga bajya kuroha mu ruzi ntabwo mbizi. Umurambo we nta…si… ntawo nigeze mbona. Kimwe na basaza banjye abongabo. Abenshi abo
      mvuga nabashije gushyingura; ni ba mabukwe niba databukwe na baramukazi banjye abandi nibo twashyinguriye hamwe hariya i Nyanza kuko benshi bari bahaguye.Bari i Nyanza hariya. Abandi
      twabajyanye ku Gisozi niho bari. Ariko muri basaza banjye nawe nigeze mbona nago nigeze menya agasheshwe kabo. Kuko bapfanye n'abandi benshi, harimo abana benshi bapfanye nabo bo kwa Kiyonga
      n'abandi.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="12:40" stop="" player="">Freddy: Ubu se umwana wawe, uwo nguwo musigaranye, afite imyaka ingahe ubungubu?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="12:47" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Afite imyaka cumi n'ine.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="12:50" stop="" player="">Freddy: Ariga, yatangiye ishuri rikuru?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="12:55" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Oya, yize nabi ntabwo… aracyari muri primaire, yakagombye kuba yaba yiga sécondaire ariko rero yagiye yiga nabi kubera amayisha make yo kubura
      amafaranga yo kumurihirira, akagenda yiga nabi.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="13:15" stop="" player="">Freddy: Wigeze kutubwira yuko igihe wari warakomeretse bakuvura, hari umudamu baguhaye w'umurwaza akaba yaragufataga nabi ndetse akaba yaranagutonekaga.
      Watubwira impamvu yabiteraga, mbese… nta n'andi magambo yakubwiraga kugira ngo ahite akwereka impamvu koko nyirizina yate…yatumaga, ibyo bintu biba?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="13:44" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Eh! Kubera ko we…bari baramuhaye, urabona intambara irangira abantu benshi bahitaga babaha akazi ko gukora amasuku kwa muganga, bakagira abarwayi
      bagupanga. We ntabwo yishimira kuko yari abonye ko ari umututsi yari arwajije kandi we yari Umuhutukazi. Ntabwo byamuvuyemo kuba yareka kubimbwira. Kuko ndibuka kuko hari umudamu witwaga
      Immaculée Mukashyaka.Yarihoreye aravuga ngo: "eh! Ngo narinzi ko ntazongera kubona Umututsi mu maso, ngo none ngiye ku murwaza?" ubwo icyo gihe nibwo nahitaga mbibwira aba inicagi [in charge]
      babobari babakuriye, nibwo bahitaga bamwirukana ahongaho…ahongaho hariya ku Faycal. Ni nabwo abantu… naje kumukurikirana ho kubera iryo jambo yavuze, baje kumenya ko yari yarakoze Génocide
      hariya i Gikondo yaricaga abana b'impinja. Nubwo nta kindi yanzizaga, yanzizaga nyine inyoko muntu.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="15:10" stop="" player="">Freddy: Amaherezo ye urayazi? Ubungubu aracyariho…</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="15:13" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Amaherezo ye, nuko nzi ko yari afungiwe ku Muhima, niba yaba agifunzwe sinzi sinakomeje gukurikirana Histoire ze.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="15:23" stop="" player="">Freddy: Wigeze kutubwira ko hari umugabo wagiye gukorera, ukimara kugera yo uramukorera hafi ibyumweru bine byose ntiyaguhemba. Ese we yasobanuraga impamvu
      ataguhembaga?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="15:41" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Ni nkibyo byose, nyine naje kukubwira ko yaje kumbwira ngo:  yari azi yuko tutazasubira kubonana… kuvugana nabo, kandi aribo batwiciye. Nyuma
      yabwo nibwo nyine yanyimye amafaranga mbona yuko aricyo ayanyimiye. Ariko mu kumwaka akazi, namwatse akazi kubera ubuzima nabonaga nta wundi muntu nabonaga w'aho ngaho w'umututsi wabaga afite
      nk'imyaka, ngo ahinge ngende mwakemo ikiraka. Kuko hari harasigaye abahutu benshi cyane, bamwe bari barasigaye nibo bahingaga. Kujyayo kwari ukwiyahura, nari nariyanze urebye ntago naringiyeyo…
      kwari ukwiyahura. Nta mafaranga yampaye… ntayo yampaye.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="16:35" stop="" player="">Freddy: Wabayeho ubuzima bukomeye bigeze aho nyuma yaho ukajya muri AVEGA, bakaguha inzu. Wumva hari icyo byakongereye mu buzima?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="16:48" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Byaranyongereye kubera yuko, niyo mbonye nibyo biraka, mbikora mvuga ngo mfite aho ntaha, nta guhangayika. Yego wenda kwibaza ho birashoboka. Mu
      buzima hari igihe ugera ahantu ukabona ko… ukibaza uti: wenda iyo nza kuba ndi kumwe n'imiryango yanjye ntacyo mba mbabaye. Ntacyo mbabaye wenda tuba dufatanya, ariko byose uragera aho
      ukabyakira uko wabibonye. Gusa igikuru gusa ni uko mbona ko muri njyewe ikintu cyagabanyutseho, ikintu cyari kimpangayikishije ni aho kuba, nkaba narahabonye.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="17:34" stop="" player="">Freddy: Nagira ngo nkubaze na none, tuve wenda mu buzima busanzwe bwawe bwite. Tukagera no mu rwego rwo kureba n'ibibera hano hanze, kandi ariko byakugiraho
      n'ingaruka mbi, bikagirira n'ingaruka n'abo muturanye. Ngira ngo nkubaze ku…muri iki gihe hariho kubaka igihugu. Hariho gushaka uko abanyarwanda bongera bakisuganya bakongera bakaba bamwe. Hari
      ikiriho cyo kumva ko abantu babana hakaba hariho commission y'ubumwe n'ubwiyunge. Wowe wumva ukurikije uko wabayeho, ukurikije uko byagenze mu nzira z'umusaraba zose wanyuzemo, wumva ubwiyunge
      hagati yawe n'abakwiciye bishoboka?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="18:35" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Mu by'ukuri, ubundi umuntu… ujya kwiyunga n'umuntu, ari uko mwabonanye cyangwa se ari uko yagusabye imbabazi. Tuvuge nk'ubu twebwe, navuga yuko ari
      Leta yo kwa Habyarimana yatwishe. Usibye nk'abantu bamwe nagiye mbabwira nkabo basirikare bitwa ba John na ba Matayo, abo nibo bantu navuga ko barimo bishe ariko abenshi ni abasirikare abenshi
      babiteye ni rusatira, njyewe numva muri njyewe numva ko nta kintu mfitanye communication n'abanyiciye nacyo nta na kimwe kindimo.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="19:32" stop="" player="">Freddy: Kuri iyi gahunda yo kureba ukuntu bahana abakoze itsembabwoko, harimo kubacira imanza mu nkiko harimo kubacira imanza no mu nyiko gacaca. Ubona
      tuvuze ku nkiko Gacaca ubona ko hari icyo zizamara mu rwego guhana abakoze itsembabwoko?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="19:58" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Gusa usibye ko burya abantu, kubahana; kubahana se kubahanisha iki ahubwo? Ntabwo wabashyiramo formation yindi ngo ubavanemo ibintu
      by'itsemba…by'itsembabwoko ngo banagukundire. Sinumva n'ukundi kuntu ushobora kubigisha kutica. Kuko hanze harimo abakibikora; harimo n'abakibyigisha kwanza ngo bajye… bice. Ntabwo numva ikintu
      ushobora gukora kugira ngo umuhane, umuhane se, uzamuhana na wawundi yishe agaruke? Ikintu numva ugomba gukora kugira ngo umuhane… umuhane areke kwica ni nk'igiki? Ntabwo mbyumva,
      simbyumva,kuko hari umuntu wigeze aravuga ati: "ngiye kubazanira umuntu wishe namwe mumukore icyo mushaka." Naramubwiye nti njyewe nta kintu kumukora icyo nshaka, nta nakimwe. Ni mumureke we
      agende we icyo yakoze azakibazwa n'Imana; kuko nta kuntu n'iyo mwanabafunga, murabafunga barabafungura.Umh…?  Murabafunga nti-bareka gukora bya bindi bakoze. Nta nakimwe mbona, no hanze
      aha njyewe ukombibona baracyafite wa mutima wo kwica. Nta kuntu mbona mwabahana simbizi. Sinzi niba hariho komisiyo yabahana ikabumvisha sinabimenya.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="21:34" stop="" player="">Freddy: Urumva se ku bwawe hakorwa iki? Kugira ngo wumve ko bahanwe cyangwa se n'igihugu cyumve kiruhutse umutwaro?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="21:50" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Burya nta muntu uruhuka umutwaro we ku…ngo nuko habaye iki. Gusa usibye ko atari ikintu cyagashoboka wenda se iyi leta ishobora gukora, naho ubundi
      ku bwanjye na mbere hose, no kuva nyuma y'intambara irangiye. Njyewe numvaga yuko nta muhutu wakagombye kuba kuri iyi si. Numvaga ko agomba gupfa, akicwa nk'uko abandi babishe. Ariko kubera…
      ubutabera ibiki mbona, icyifuzo cyanjye numvaga ari icyo ngicyo nta kindi.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="22:34" stop="" player="">Freddy: Ariko ubungubu harimo abirega, bakihana ibyaha. Abo bo ubavugaho iki?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="22:41" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Ntabo nari nabona, ntabo nari nabona wireze ngo yirege icyaha nabonye.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="22:51" stop="" player="">Freddy: Muri make se wumva amaherezo y'igihugu cyacu, wowe uyabona ute? Hakirimo abicanyi; hakirimo ababyemera yuko bicanye, hakirimo ndetse n'imfubyi
      zikibabaye. Iki gihugu cyacyu kirimo uruzuku rumeze gutyo, wumva amaherezo yacyo… ah'ejo hazaza hacyo wumva wowe hazaba hameze hate?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="23:26" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Mu byukuri uko mbobona njyewe, wenda mpereye nka nyuma y'intambara uko ibintu ngenda mbibona. Niba habagaho ukuri. Habayeho ukuri byose ibintu
      byashoboka. Habaye abongabo bakoresha… bagishaka gukoresha ibintu byo kwica, babiretse. Njye ndumva habaho amahoro, noneho abantu bagatekana, bakagira umutekano. Na za mfubyi nazo zahangayitse
      zikabona uko… bavuga bati: "noneho hariho mahoro… nta muntu tugomba guhunga."</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="24:20" stop="" player="">Freddy: Urabona ubu ni ubuhamya utanze, kandi ubutanze kuri iyi tariki ariko bushobora kuzabikwa igihe kirekire, bukarebwa n'abana…n'umwana wawe n'umwuzukuru
      we ashobora kuba yazabureba. Nk'umubyeyi wumva waha ubuhe butumwa, abana b'igihugu bahuye nibyo bibazo, babonye ibyo bibazo byo kuba barahuye n'itsembabwoko. wumva wabaha ubuhe butumwa bwo
      kubakomeza no kugirango bashobore kwikura mu bibazo bafite?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="25:00" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Yee! Gusa icyo navuga ni uko, abana basigaye bonyine b'imfubyi, ari abakuru bafite abandi bana barumuna babo barera. Njyewe numva nababwira ngo
      bakomeze bihangane, kuko ibyabaye byarabaye ahubwo bo bashake inkunga ibafasha, icyabateza imbere kugira ngo bakomeze ubuzima bwabo.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="25:37" stop="" player="">Freddy: By'umwihariko ku mwana wawe, nk'umubyeyi we, umwana wawe wumva wamubwira iki cyazamuteza imbere kubuzima bwe bwose.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="25:56" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Gusa usibye ko muri iki gihe hari igihe utashobora kuba utaganira n'umwana wawe ngo akwemerere, kubera ko hariho benshi bafite mu mitwe hafunze ya
      kare nk'uwanjye. Ndihaho urugero nk'umwana wanye nasigaranye, arafunze afite kare muri we. Kugira ngo umuganirire keretse nibura yisumbuye ho, akaba reba n'ibintu byo hanze uko byifashe, ahari
      nibwo namuganiriza nkamubwira ubuzima, nuko agomba kwifata. Byaba ari hanze ahangaha cyangwa ari mu busore bwe. Niho umuntu agomba kuba yabona yaganira n'umwana abona ko afite… kuba yamubwira
      afite ibitekerezo byo kumva.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="26:57" stop="" player="">Freddy: Urabona uba ahantu, ahantu uba ni mumudugudu, harimo abantu muhuje ibibazo benshi. Ese ntacyo mukora, mufatanyije kugira ngo murebe ukuntu mwagenda
      mugabanura… byabaganura agahinda? Mubyifatamo mute mufatanya mute kugira ngo murebe yuko mwa…kwirwanaho mu rwego rwo kwimara agahinda?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="27:27" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Gusa usibye ko umuntu yimenya kuri we nta…si… kuva nahaba icyenda na karindwi [1997], icyenda n'umunani [1998] kugeza ubungubu ntabwo nari nabona
      hariho ubufatanye bwo kuvuga ngo urafatanya na kanaka kubyerekeye kuganira cyangwa se, mwibukiranye cyangwa se ngo mugire ikindi kintu mugeraho. Ntabyo mbona, umuntu abaho gutyo kuri we
      gusa.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="28:00" stop="" player="">Freddy: Ibyo se wumva bihagije cyangwa hari ikindi kintu umuntu yakora? Kugira ngo ako gahinda k'abantu bafite hariya mubana mugira mute…kagabanuke, wumva
      yuko muganiriye cyangwa hakozwe ikindi byatanga akamaro?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="28:20" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Har'ukuntu wenda ushobora kuba byashoboka kubaho, ariko kandi bitewe na kamere y'umuntu runaka. Cyangwa se imibereho ye…ye ku giti cye.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="28:41" stop="" player="">Freddy: Ubundi se? Wenda cyaba ari nk'ikibazo cya nyuma. Umugabo wawe yitabye Imana ukiri muto, ntabwo wigeze ubushake bwo kumva wakongera gushaka?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="28:58" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Ibyo nabyo ntabwo twigeze tubivuganaho, nyuma y'intambara y'itsembatsemba n'itsembabwoko, nibwo naje kongera kuvuga ngo nshake. Nashatse…
      nashakanye na murumuna we yabaga hanze, yaje ari umusirikare ariko nawe ntawe uriho yaje gupfa yaguye mu ntambara yo muri Kongo, nawe twabyaranye umwana w'umuhungu afite imyaka irindwi.Ubwo
      rero kuva ubwo nta…nta kundi numva gutekereza kuba nashaka.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="29:45" stop="" player="">Freddy: Kuri iyi témoignage se cyangwa kuri ubu buhamya bwawe utanze, harimo inyigisho wagiye uha abatoya, nta kindi wakumva wakongeraho?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="29:57" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Ndumva nta kindi nakongeraho. </gm:tm>
  </gm:itext>
  <gm:itext type="transcript" title="English translation " player="video2">
    <gm:tm start="00:05" stop="" player="">Beatrice: While we were talking, you asked me about what I saw before the genocide?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="00:19" stop="" player="">Freddy: That is the next question I was going to ask you; you told us that you were born in 1967. There was a time, the Tutsi were harassed until 1973.
      Though you were young there are some things you probably saw; can you briefly tell us about your life until 1990?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="01:02" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Yes, in 1970 I was young but still we lost some of our family members. I can remember my uncle [we used to call him Munyambo] he was taken to
      Nyamata… by then we were living in Bugesera. I even remember my grandmother saying that Habyarimana overthrew Kayibanda; there was a military coup. I remember few houses were burnt in Induga.
      That is when they took my uncle to Nyamata but my father was still alive. Then dad asked us to follow my uncle in order to see where they were taking them. Then we went to Nyamata. When we
      reached there, we saw him in a group of other Tutsis who were captured. They sprayed them with an insecticide called DDT, my uncle was beaten to death. That is what I remember. They were there
      in Nyamata. They killed them using the spray.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="03:03" stop="" player="">Freddy: Did it affect your parents? I mean the harassment or torture.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="03:06" stop="" player="">Beatrice: No, my father fled to Burundi for a long time and came back when I was six [6 years]. The situation had improved though I don't know much about
      what used to happen. All I know is about the people who died in Nyamata. They were put in a very small building with no opening. They were of mixed ages, women, children, boys and men. They
      suffocated to death.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="04:00" stop="" player="">Freddy: For how long did you stay in Nyamata?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="04:02" stop="" player="">Beatrice: We were in Nyamata for a month. When they started reassuring us, we went back home to Kanazi, where we came from when we went to Nyamata. We went
      back to Kanazi from Nyamata.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="04:25" stop="" player="">Freddy: When you reached home, was there peace as it had been announced or there wasn't?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="04:28" stop="" player="">Beatrice: It was peaceful but the men and the strong boys used to patrol at night as for us children, we were put in pit holes and the holes would be covered
      with banana leaves. That is the best I can recall.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="04:58" stop="" player="">Freddy: What about the time of political parties? The period, which was seemingly the most chaotic…</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="05:02" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Okay… I forgot to tell you about it. During that time, several events took place. Meetings were held. Definitely peasants like us did not know that
      those meetings were dangerous. We never thought anything bad would come out of the Hutu or of the Tutsi. Though I had seen some of their deeds in the 1970s, by then I had forgotten everything.
      I couldn't differentiate the Hutu from the Tutsi because they used to be very sociable; they would intermarry. Later on, that is after the period of multiple parties. I realized that there were
      MDR, MRND, PSD, and PDC, generally several political parties. Some of these parties joined and started fighting against others. For example, PSD joined with MDR and were against PL and MRND.
      Such acts confused people, especially the peasants. We thought that, those fighting MRND were against Ikinani [the undefeatable] but after he died [Habyarimana] all the parties joined and
      formed a single group. The group that committed genocide. However in the beginning, parties were against other parties. For example, PL and PSD political parties would be fought against, simply
      because you were not in good terms with the MDR power. There was a political party called MDR, which was different from MDR power. All that confused… MDR was against MDR power; MRND, PSD and
      Gatabazi who was killed led it. He died in Kicukiro. There was some chaos in the population; boys would be kidnapped from the roads and be killed in Kajeke. Meetings were held during that time
      of multiple parties. Whenever MRND and MDR would hold meetings, many people would die. Strong boys would be taken and one would wait in vain to see them come back. They would kill young men and
      their bodies would be discovered later. There was a lot of chaos and that period was dangerous.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="08:15" stop="" player="">Freddy: You told us that your husband was taken. Was it during the Genocide or before the genocide?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="08:23" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Yes, they took him during the genocide since we fled before the killings started. We fled during the time of political parties. When Bucyana died,
      we left our home and took refugee at a parish. My husband joined us later at the parish. He would sometimes go out of the parish to find out how far things had gone. But after Habyarimana's
      dearth, he died on the 6th [of April] and we were still at the parish. Father Petris told us to go to ETO. Then a man known as John from Nyakabanda took my husband. He asked my husband to
      escort him and because he was our neighbor he agreed and they went together. I never saw him again. That was before we were taken to Nyanza. He took him from ETO.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="10:13" stop="" player="">Freddy: You told us that they took all of you; do you know the kind of death your mother died?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="10:26" stop="" player="">Beatrice: My mother offended them; she told them bad words and when they felt insulted, they shot her dead. She was shot the night before the Inkotanyi came
      to our rescue.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="10:49" stop="" player="">Freddy: What about your father?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="10:51" stop="" player="">Beatrice: My father had died before the Genocide.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="10:58" stop="" player="">Freddy: Did you manage to exhume and rebury your people, those who were dumped in latrines or anywhere else …?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="11:04" stop="" player="">Beatrice: I exhumed the majority of them and reburied them except my husband whom I do not know where his body is up to now. Bibi, Alphonse's daughter, is
      the one who came and told me, "Your husband has been killed." Due to the living conditions during that time, I never managed to follow up and see where they dumped his body after killing him.
      Therefore, I don't know if he was eaten by dogs or if he was taken in those cars, which they used for carrying corpses to lakes or rivers. I have never seen his body neither have I ever seen my
      brothers'. The people I reburied are my in-laws; my mother in-law, my father in-law and others that we exhumed and reburied in general, there at Nyanza because many people died there. Others
      were exhumed and taken at Gisozi but I have never seen any of my brothers' corpses. They died with several other kids including children from Kayonga's family and others.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="12:40" stop="" player="">Freddy: How old is your child the one who survived with you?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="00:00" stop="" player="">Beatrice: She is 14 years old.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="12:52" stop="" player="">Freddy: Is she studying or has she joined secondary school?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="12:55" stop="" player="">Beatrice: No, she did not study well; she is still in primary school. She would have joined secondary school but due to lack of school fees she was left
      behind in school.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="13:15" stop="" player="">Freddy: You told us earlier that, when you were sick, you were taken to the hospital and you were given some lady to look after you. But later, she seemed to
      be bad and at times she would hurt you. Can you tell us the reason why? Did she used to say anything, which would have shown you the reason why she acted like that towards you?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="13:45" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Yes, because after the war they used to employ nurses without being careful and some of these employees hated the Tutsi. Therefore, she was not
      happy with the idea of looking after a Tutsi patient yet she was a Hutu.  She still had the Hutu ideologies and she couldn't avoid telling me what was on her mind. I remember when she saw
      a certain lady called Mukashyaka Immaculée, she exclaimed, " I thought I would never see a Tutsi's face again but I am going to nurse one." When I heard her saying that, I immediately reported
      her to their superiors. And then she was fired from King Fayçal Hospital. People became skeptical and investigated her past. Eventually it was discovered that she committed genocide in Gikondo,
      she used to kill kids. So she just hated me because of my origins and tribe.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="15:11" stop="" player="">Freddy: Do you know what happened to her afterwards? Is she still alive?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="15:14" stop="" player="">Beatrice: All I know as far as her fate is concerned is that she was arrested and put under custody at Muhima but thereafter I did not continue to follow
      up.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="15:24" stop="" player="">Freddy: You told us earlier that you once worked for a man for four months and he refused to pay you, do you know the cause?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="15:42" stop="" player="">Beatrice: It is for similar reasons. Before refusing to give me my pay, he had told me that he didn't know that we would ever talk with them [Hutus] again.
      However, I asked him for a job because of the hard life I was facing. Yet in that whole area, there were only Hutu people, all the Tutsis had died. I couldn't locate any Tutsis nearby who was a
      farmer. It was only Hutus who had farms and could cultivate. Asking for a job from them was so brave; it was a risk. I was desperate; going to them by then, was like a form of committing
      suicide. They never paid me.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="16:35" stop="" player="">Freddy: You lived a terrible life but after you went to AVEGA and you were given a house. Did getting a house improve anything in your life?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="16:48" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Yes of course. When I get part-time jobs, I work knowing that I have somewhere to live. However, sometimes you think of how life would have been if
      one had family. You believe that if your family were there, there would be no problems. You would be helping one another. But we accepted what happened and now we are living normally. Actually,
      my worries reduced because my biggest worry was where to live. And now I got a house.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="17:35" stop="" player="">Freddy: I'd like to ask you other questions that are not related to your own life as such. Let's talk about what is happening out there, which at times may
      have consequences on your life or on your neighbours.  You can see that our nation is in the process of developing. There is also a need for the people to reconcile and become one. There
      is a National Unity and Reconciliation Commission, which would like to unite people. According to your own experience, not forgetting all you went through; do you think you can unite or
      reconcile with those who killed your beloved ones?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="18:35" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Frankly speaking, people reconcile after you have met and he or she asks for forgiveness. Personally I can say that, it is president Habyarimana's
      Government or regime that did the atrocities. Besides some people I mentioned above, like the John and Matthew, these are the only people [who were not in the army] who killed. The rest were
      soldiers like Rusatira. Personally, I don't believe I have any reasons to communicate with the killers. Nothing at all.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="19:32" stop="" player="">Freddy: In the agenda of punishing the perpetrators, there is judging them at the judiciary courts and others in Gacaca courts. Do you think Gacaca courts
      are fair, as far as punishing those who committed genocide is concerned?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="19:59" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Punishing them? What can you punish them with? You can never change their ideology of genocide. I don't even think there is any other way of
      teaching them not to kill. Because out there, they are some of them who still kill, there are even some who are still encouraging people to kill. Therefore, I cannot imagine what can be done to
      let them know that killing is bad. I don't even know the kind of punishment that can teach them a lesson.  Some time back, someone told me that he was going to bring me someone who killed
      my people; so that I would do him anything I wished. I simply told him it was better not bring him to me, because I could never imagine what to do with such a person. I asked him to let him go
      and wait for God's judgment. Even if you imprison them it won't change anything. Even out here, I see people still having the same ideologies. I don't know if there is any commission that can
      teach and change them. I don't know.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="21:35" stop="" player="">Freddy: Personally, which punishment can you suggest that can be close to the solution, so that the country would fell relieved from its heavy load?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="21:51" stop="" player="">Beatrice: There is no one who unloads one's load by doing this or that. What I thought could have been done even before the war; I wished all Hutu would die
      like they killed others. But because of justice and all that, which I don't believe in ... that was all I wished.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="22:35" stop="" player="">Freddy: But presently they are those who report themselves and plead guilty. What do you think of that?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="22:42" stop="" player="">Beatrice: I have never seen any. I have never seen a person who reported himself about an event I know of.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="22:52" stop="" player="">Freddy: In brief, what do you think about the future for this country, yet there are still killers around and some of them admit what they did? But in the
      same location, there are orphans who are living in agony. In this country there is a lot of mistrust, suspiscion among people. What do you think the future will be like?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="23:27" stop="" player="">Beatrice: From my point of view, considering life before the war and the way I see things nowadays, if people would be honest, everything would be possible.
      If people who still believe in killing changed, this country would become peaceful. If it happened that way, there would be security and those orphans who are living in agony, would also be
      able to appreciate and say, "There is peace, we don't need to hide from some people."</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="24:20" stop="" player="">Freddy: This testimony you have given us on this particular date, will be kept for a long time. Several children will see it and your own child or
      grandchildren may one day see it. As a parent, what message can you forward for the children of the country who faced such problems of experiencing the genocide? A message that could help and
      keep them strong or build  patience in them for whatever they may encounter in the future.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="25:00" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Well, all I could tell those children, especially the orphans who remained without parents yet they have to look after their siblings, they should
      be tolerant. Because what happened, happened. Instead of looking at the past, they should look ahead for something that would be of use to them. They should always aim at their development so
      as to improve their life standards.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="25:38" stop="" player="">Freddy: Exceptionally your child. As her mother what can you advise your child that would be of help in her whole life?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="25:56" stop="" player="">Beatrice: It is only that nowadays, some children can never give you an ear. Because some are dull, like mine. I am giving you the example of my own child.
      One would think there is ice in her head. Talking to her, unless I wait for her to grow up a bit and gain some experience in life. Then I would be able to tell her some things and advise her
      how to behave in life. She still has to mature up a bit.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="26:57" stop="" player="">Freddy: You live in an area where you have people you share problems. Do you have some things you do together that can reduce your misery? How do you handle
      the temptation to despair?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="27:28" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Everybody fights on her own. Ever since I started living there; it was in 1997 or 1998 up to now I haven't seen any kind of co-operation as far as
      exchanging ideas or any other kind of togetherness between the survivors here may be concerned. I have never seen it; everyone lives on her own.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="28:01" stop="" player="">Freddy: Do you think this is enough or there is something else you can do to fight your misery? Do you think exchanging views or talking together can improve
      anything?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="28:21" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Yes it possibly may improve some things but still it depends on a person's nature or her ways of living.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="28:42" stop="" player="">Freddy: Anyway this may be the last question, your husband passed away while you were still young. Do you have any intentions of remarrying?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="28:59" stop="" player="">Beatrice: Yeah, I never talked about that issue. After the genocide, yes I married his young brother who lived in exile. He was a soldier but unfortunately
      he also passed away during the Congo battle. We had a kid together, who is 7 years old. From then I haven't thought of getting married again.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="29:45" stop="" player="">Beatrice: In your testimony, there are a lot of messages for children. Do you have any additional message?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="29:57" stop="" player="">Freddy: I guess that is enough.</gm:tm>
  </gm:itext>
  <gm:itext type="transcript" title="French translation " player="video2">
    <gm:tm start="00:05" stop="" player="">Béatrice:  …Mais il y a un moment où tu m'as demandé si avant le Génocide je n'avais pas vu quoi ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="00:19" stop="" player="">Freddy:  C'est justement ce que j'allais te demander. Tu nous a dit que tu es née en 1967, les Tutsi ont été persécutés pendant ces temps jusqu'en 1973,
      tu étais sûrement très jeune mais s'il y a des événements que tu as vus…tu peux nous décrire la vie de ce temps-là jusqu'en 1990.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="01:03" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Oui…durant les années 70 je n'étais qu'une enfant mais certains des nôtres ont perdu leur vie ce temps là parce que je me rappelle bien que mon
      oncle Munyango a été déporté à Nyamata. Ce temps là nous vivions à Bugesera. Je me rappelle aussi que ma grand mère nous disait qu'après Kayibanda, c'est Habyarimana qui est allé au pouvoir et
      qu'il y a eu un coup d'Etat. Mais je me souviens aussi qu'on pouvait voir les maisons de la colline Nduga mises en feu…ils ont emmené mon oncle à Nyamata. Mon père était encore en vie et
      il  a dit : « Suivons-les pour qu'on puisse voir où ils vont les mettre. » Nous les avons suivis jusqu'à Nyamata. Mais ce qu'ils leur ont fait…il y avait un insecticide  pour tuer les
      mouches, on disait que ça tuait même les grosses mouches de vallées, ils l'ont alors pulvérisé parmi les Tutsi qui étaient là mais mon oncle lui, ils l'ont tué en le frappant. C'est tout ce
      dont je me souviens. Ils étaient là à Nyamata mais les autres ont été tués par cet insecticide appelé Tsétsé.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="03:03" stop="" player="">Freddy: Est-il arrivé à tes parents d'êtres torturés ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="03:06" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Non. Sauf que mon père a fui vers le Burundi où il est resté ; à son retour j'avais 6 ans. Après j'ai entendu dire qu'il y avait la paix mais… je
      ne sais pas grand chose sur ce qui se passait mais je sais que beaucoup de gens de Nyamata sont morts parce qu'ils avaient été enfermés dans un endroit très petit et non aéré. C'était des
      femmes, des enfants, des jeunes et même des hommes âgés.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="04:00" stop="" player="">Freddy: Vous êtes restés à Nyamata pendant combien de temps ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="04:02" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Nous sommes restés à Nyamata pendant un mois puis après quand la situation s'est apaisée nous sommes rentrés chez nous à Kanazi. C'est là où nous
      vivions avant d'aller à Nyamata et c'est là que nous sommes retournés.  </gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="04:25" stop="" player="">Freddy: En rentrant est-ce que vous avez réellement trouvé la paix ou était-ce seulement… ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="04:28" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Il n'y avait rien d'autre à part que les hommes passaient la nuit dehors. Et puis aussi quand la nuit tombait, on nous mettait, nous les enfants,
      dans les bananeraies puis on nous recouvrait de feuilles de bananes. C'est de ça que je me souviens.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="04:58" stop="" player="">Freddy: Ensuite est arrivée la période chaotique du multipartisme.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="05:02" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Au fait j'ai sauté une partie : celle du multipartisme. Pendant ce temps il y avait des meetings mais nous, la minorité, ne voyons aucun problème à
      ça. Nous ne voyons aucun mal à dire Hutu ou Tutsi. Par exemple moi qui ai vécu les années 70, j'avais certainement oublié mais je ne savais pas dire Hutu ou Tutsi ce temps là  parce que
      les gens étaient solidaires et se mariaient entre eux. Mais lors du multipartisme avec des partis comme MDR, MRND, PSD, PDC, mais après PDS et MDR ont fusionné pour rivaliser le PL et le MRND.
      On a ensuite mystifié la minorité en disant qu'en rivalisant le MRND, elle rivalisait l'invincible [Habyarimana] mais juste après la mort de Habyarimana, tous ces partis ont fusionné pour faire
      un seule chose…le Génocide alors qu'avant les partis rivalisaient entre eux. Un membre du parti PL rivalisait avec celui d'un autre, celui du PSD de même parce que les autres n'étaient pas des
      MDR Power. Il y avait en effet deux MRD : MDR  et MDR Power. Tout ça…MDR défiait MDR Power qui défiait à son tour le MRND ; le PSD était de Gatabazi qui  avait été tué à Kicukiro, et
      dont la mort a causé la pagaille au sein de la population. Ils ont alors commencé à tuer les jeunes garçons qu'ils rencontraient en cours de route, à Kajeke aussi ils tuaient… Il y avait des
      meetings durant cette période de multipartisme et quand le MRND et le MDR faisaient leur meeting, coûte que coûte, il devait y avoir des morts ce jour là. Les jeunes étaient enlevés, tu pouvais
      l'attendre mais il ne revenait pas à la maison. Les hommes aussi étaient enlevés puis ils allaient les tuer discrètement ; après tu entendais les gens dire le corps de tel est à tel endroit…il
      y a eu un chaos terrible.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="08:15" stop="" player="">Freddy: Tu nous adit que ton mari a été emporté. Etait-ce durant le Génocide ou avant ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="08:23" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Il a été emporté pendant le Génocide. Au fait nous avons fui lors du multipartisme, juste après la mort de Bucyana, nous nous sommes réfugiés à la
      paroisse. Mon mari nous a ensuite rejoint à la paroisse. Il suivait de près la situation à l'extérieur…après, quand Habyirimana est mort, le 06 avril, le père Peteresi nous a dit d'aller à
      l'ETO. C'est là que John de Nyakabanda est venu le prendre en lui disant de l'accompagner mais puisque nous étions des voisins, c'est lui qui l'a tué. Il a été tué par John et un autre
      jardinier qui vivait à Kicukiro, Nduhira. Il est mort bien avant que nous soyons partis à Nyanza.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="10:13" stop="" player="">Freddy: Tu nous a dit qu'ils ont été emportés, est-ce que tu sais comment ta mère est morte ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="10:26" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Maman…c'est ce que je vous ai dit, elle les a énervé puis ils l'ont tirée dessus. Elle les avait insultés puis ils lui ont envoyée des balles dans
      le corps. Elle est morte la veille…de l'arrivée des Inkotanyi.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="10:49" stop="" player="">Freddy: Et ton père ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="10:51" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Mon père lui…il était mort depuis longtemps, il n'est pas mort durant le Génocide.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="10:58" stop="" player="">Freddy: As-tu été en mesure de procéder aux obsèques des tiens qui…qui avaient été jetés dans les fosses ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="11:04" stop="" player="">Béatrice: La plupart oui mais le corps de mon mari… je ne sais pas où il est jusqu'à présent. C'est Bibi, de chez Alphonse qui et venu me dire : « Ton mari
      vient d'être tué. » Tu vois cette période là…je ne pouvais pas aller voir son corps pour que je demande aux gens de le déplacer et le mettre quelque part ; je ne sais donc pas s'il a été mangé
      par des chiens ou s'il a été transporté dans les camions qui allaient jeter les morts dans les cours d'eau…je n'en sais rien. Je ne l'ai pas vu, de même que mes frères. Ceux que nous avons
      enterré, c'est ma belle-mère, mon beau-père, mes belles-sœurs, mais tous les autres, nous les avons enterrés à Nyanza parce que beaucoup de gens y ont perdu la vie. Ils sont à Nyanza, les
      autres sont enterrés à Gisozi. Mais mes frères eux, je ne les ai pas vu… aucune idée de là où ils sont. Ils sont morts parmi tant d'autres, avec les enfants de chez Kayonga et tant
      d'autres.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="12:40" stop="" player="">Freddy: Et ton enfant avec qui tu vis, quel âge a t-il ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="00:00" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Il a 14 ans.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="12:52" stop="" player="">Freddy: Il va école, il a déjà commencé l'école secondaire ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="12:56" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Non…ses études ne vont pas bien, il est encore à l'école primaire. Il devait être au secondaire mais à cause des problèmes de minerval et de la vie
      courante…il n'étudie pas comme il faut.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="13:15" stop="" player="">Freddy: Tu nous a dit que quand tu te faisais soigner ta blessure, on avait mis à ta disposition une dame pour t' hospitaliser mais elle ne s'occupait pas de
      toi et même, elle te faisait mal en dérangeant tes appareils. Pourquoi est-ce qu'elle faisait ça?  Est-ce qu'il y a des mots qu'elle te disait pour te montrer la principale cause de son
      comportement ou ce qui la poussait à agir de la sorte?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="13:45" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Au fait juste après la guerre, beaucoup de gens étaient engagés à faire la propreté à l'hôpital, on leur disait donc de prendre soin des malades
      également. Mais elle n'était pas contente à l'idée de prendre soin d'une Tutsi puisqu'elle était Hutu. Elle ne s'était jamais délaissée au point de me le dire mais il y a une autre dame
      appelée  Immaculée Mukashyaka…mais une fois elle dit : « J'avais juré ne plus jamais voir un Tutsi devant moi, maintenant je dois prendre soin d'une d'entre eux.» Je l'ai entendu puis je
      l'ai directement dit aux responsables qui étaient leurs supérieurs. C'est alors qu'elle a immédiatement été chassée de l'hôpital. J'ai continué à investiguer à son sujet à cause de ce qu'elle
      avait dit, après on a découvert qu'elle avait commis le Génocide à Gikondo, elle tuait les bébés.  La seule chose qui la poussait à me détester c'est mon ethnie et rien d'autre.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="15:11" stop="" player="">FreddyL: Est-ce que tu as une idée de ce qu'elle est devenue ? Est-elle encore en vie ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="15:14" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Tout ce que je sais c'est qu'elle était en prison à Muhima, je ne sais pas si elle a été relâchée après. Je ne me suis plus intéressé à son
      histoire.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="15:24" stop="" player="">Freddy: Tu nous as dit aussi que tu avais travaillé pendant quatre semaines pour un homme qui ne t'avais pas payé un seul sou. T'avait-il dit pourquoi il ne
      voulait pas te payer ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="15:42" stop="" player="">Béatrice: C'est la même histoire… je t'ai dit qu'il m'avait dit qu'il ne croyait pas me revoir…qu'on pouvait encore causer puisqu'ils ont tué les nôtres.
      C'est sûrement pour cette raison qu'il ne m'a pas payé par après. Mais au fait en allant lui demander de me donner du travail c'est parce qu' il n'y avait aucun Tutsi dans les environs pouvant
      avoir des vivres pour que je lui demande un petit job. Il y avait beaucoup de Hutu, c'est eux qui étaient restés, c'est eux qui cultivaient. Au fait aller demander du travail n'était pas aller
      comme tel : c'était un suicide…la vie ne me disait plus rien. En plus il ne m'a même pas payé…rien du tout.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="16:35" stop="" player="">Freddy: Tu as vécu une vie très difficile puis après tu es allée à l'AVEGA. On t'a fait une maison, et-ce que cela a eu un effet positif sur ta vie ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="16:48" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Ça m'a beaucoup aidé puisque quand je trouve ces jobs, je les fais avec l'assurance de pouvoir rentrer chez moi. Bien sûr se poser des questions ne
      manquait pas parce que dans la vie il  arrive qu'on se  demande…qu'on se dit que la vie aurait sûrement une autre couleur si j'avais encore de la famille. Je n'aurais aucun problème,
      on se partagerait les tâches. Sauf que ma plus grande préoccupation était le logement, maintenant elle est un peu résolue.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="17:35" stop="" player="">Freddy: Si on mettait ta privée un peu de côté et que nous nous focalisions sur la vie courante dont certains aspects peuvent avoir des conséquences 
      fâcheuses sur ta vie et celle des autres…Aujourd'hui on parle de reconstruction du pays, les Rwandais essaient de se serrer les coudes pour se réunifier. Il y a la commission d'unité et de
      réconciliation…en revenant sur les sentiers de ta vie antérieure, est-ce que tu crois que la réconciliation entre toi et ceux qui ont tué les tiens est possible ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="18:36" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Franchement je crois que pour s'unifier avec quelqu'un, il faut bien que vous vous soyez vu ou qu'il t'ait demandé pardon…à part ces militaires
      comme John et Matthieu dont je vous ai parlé…au fait la plupart des tueurs étaient des militaires mais c'était surtout la faute de Rusatira. Personnellement je n'ai aucun contact avec ceux qui
      ont tué les miens. Aucun processus en rapport n'est en cours, rien.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="19:32" stop="" player="">Freddy: Dans le cadre de juger ceux qui ont commis le Génocide, il y a la juridiction Gacaca. Est-ce que tu crois que cette juridiction aura une importance
      quelconque sur le jugement de génocidaires ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="19:59" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Les gens tu sais… sauf que les punir, comment les punir d'ailleurs ? Impossible d'organiser une formation pour enrayer l'idéologie génocidaire de
      leur tête. Je ne vois vraiment pas comment on peut leur apprendre de ne pas tuer. Parce qu'il y a des gens juste là dehors qui leur enseignent encore qu'ils doivent tuer… Franchement, je crois
      qu'on ne peut rien faire pour les punir pour qu'ils ne tuent plus. Quelle serait cette punition ? Je ne comprend pas moi. Une fois quelqu'un a dit qu'il allait nous emmener un génocidaire pour
      qu'on le punisse de n'importe quelle façon mais il n'y a rien que je pouvais lui faire. Je lui ai dit de le laisser partir et qu'il devra rendre compte à Dieu. Parce qu'on les met en prison
      puis on les relâche, on les met en prison mais ça ne les empêche pas de faire ce qu'ils ont fait avant et puis ils ont encore ce mauvais cœur de tueurs…vraiment je ne vois pas comment on peut
      les punir, et s'il y a une commission chargée de ça moi je n'en sais rien.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="21:35" stop="" player="">Freddy: Quelle est ta suggestion à ce sujet, pour que le pays soit soulagé de ce fardeau ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="21:51" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Tu sais on ne se débarrasse pas d'un fardeau aussi facilement parce que…sauf que ce n'est pas…moi personnellement depuis que la guerre est finie,
      je trouvais qu'aucun Hutu ne devait vivre, ils devaient tous être mis à mort comme ils ont tué aussi mais à cause de la Justice et…en fait c'était ça ma suggestion.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="22:35" stop="" player="">Freddy: Mais aujourd'hui il y a ceux qui s'auto accusent et demandent pardon. Qu'en penses-tu ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="22:42" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Je n'en ai pas encore vu. Je n'ai encore vu personne s'auto accuser de ses crimes.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="22:52" stop="" player="">Freddy: Que penses-tu de l'avenir du pays ? Avec ces gens qui ont tué, ceux qui admettent leurs crimes…ces orphelins qui souffrent, il y a une sorte de
      chaos, que penses-tu du futur de la nation ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="23:27" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Si je considère tout ce temps écoulé depuis l'après-guerre, s'il y a la vérité…avec la vérité tout est possible. Si ces gens qui ont encore des
      idéologies meurtrières se détournent d'elles, franchement nous aurons la paix. Il y aurait ainsi donc la sécurité, ces orphelins qui souffrent n'auront plus à craindre qui que ce soit.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="24:20" stop="" player="">Freddy: Tu vois témoignage que tu livres, il pourra être visualisé par tes enfants, et même par leurs petits-fils. En tant que mère, que dirais-tu à tous ces
      enfants qui ont vécu dans tous ces problèmes, quel message de réconfort leur transmettrais-tu pour qu'ils puissent s'en sortir ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="25:00" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Ce que je dirais sur ces enfants ou ces orphelins qui ont en charge d'autres orphelins plus petits, c'est d'être courageux car ce qui est arrivé
      est arrivé, qu'ils cherchent au contraire un moyen pour leur permettre d'aller de l'avant dans leurs vies.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="25:38" stop="" player="">Freddy: En tant que mère que dirais-tu à ton fils qui le pousserait à aller toujours de l'avant ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="25:56" stop="" player="">Béatrice: …Sauf qu'aujourd'hui il est un  peu difficile de discuter avec un enfant et se faire comprendre parce qu'ils sont figés. Mon fils par exemple,
      il est complètement bloqué dans sa tête. Pour lui parler de ça, peut être s'il lève un peu la tête et regarde ce qui se passé dehors, pour que je lui parle de la vie courante, comment il doit
      se comporter dans sa jeunesse, c'est là qu'il peut comprendre.  </gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="26:57" stop="" player="">Freddy: Tu vis dans un habitat regroupé… avec des gens qui partagent les mêmes problèmes que toi. Est-ce que vous faites quelque chose pour vous débarrasser
      de votre chagrin ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="27:28" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Chacun s'occupe de ses affaires, depuis 1997,1998 jusqu'a présent, je n'ai eu le concours de personne en vue de parler de nos problèmes ou de nous
      raconter mutuellement nos passés afin d'aboutir à  quelque chose, rien. Chacun vit dans son monde.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="28:00" stop="" player="">Freddy: Est-ce que c'est suffisant ça ? Ou bien doit- on faire autre chose pour que le chagrin que vous traversez diminue ? Est-ce que vous croyez que
      discuter ou en faire autre chose ensemble puisse vous être utile ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="28:21" stop="" player="">Béatrice: C'est possible mais cela dépend de la nature de la personne ou de son mode de vie.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="28:42" stop="" player="">Freddy: Je crois que c'est la dernière question, ton mari est mort alors que tu étais encore jeune. Est-ce que tu n'as plus eu envie de te remarier ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="28:59" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Je ne crois pas t'en avoir parle mais après le Génocide, je me suis remariée avec son petit frère. Il était à l'étranger, c'était un militaire. Il
      est mort à la guerre du Congo, nous avons eu un enfant ensemble. Cet enfant a sept ans aujourd'hui. Apres lui, je n'ai plus songé à me remarier.</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="29:45" stop="" player="">Freddy: Dans ce témoignage, tu as transmis un message aux enfants. Est-ce que tu voudrais y ajouter quelque chose ?</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="29:57" stop="" player="">Béatrice: Je crois que je n'ai plus rien à ajouter.</gm:tm>
  </gm:itext>
  <gm:itext type="toc" title="View People" player="video2">
    <gm:tm start="01:16" stop="" player="">Munyambo</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="01:33" stop="" player="">Kayibanda</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="01:35" stop="" player="">Habyarimana</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="07:14" stop="" player="">Gatabazi</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="09:31" stop="" player="">Priest Petrice</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="09:42" stop="" player="">John</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="09:57" stop="" player="">Nduhira</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="11:18" stop="" player="">Bibi</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="11:20" stop="" player="">Alphonse</gm:tm>
  </gm:itext>
  <gm:itext type="toc" title="View Places" player="video2">
    <gm:tm start="01:22" stop="" player="">Nyamata</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="01:24" stop="" player="">Bugesera</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="01:46" stop="" player="">Nduga</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="04:11" stop="" player="">I Kanazi</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="07:17" stop="" player="">Kicukiro</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="07:34" stop="" player="">Kajeke</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="09:33" stop="" player="">Eto</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="09:43" stop="" player="">Nyakabanda </gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="12:04" stop="" player="">Nyanza</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="12:12" stop="" player="">Gisozi</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="14:25" stop="" player="">Immacule MUKASHYAKA</gm:tm>
    <gm:tm start="19:14" stop="" player="">Rusatira</gm:tm>
  </gm:itext>
  <gm:itext type="map" title="View Map" player="video2">
    <map kml="/extensions/GSMCreator/rwdtest.xml" lat="-1.7410649992245106" lng="30.16845703125" zoom="8"/>
  </gm:itext>
</gm:gml><p>
</p>
<h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="Continues_fromPart_1_of_the_Oral_Testimony_of_NIKUZE_Beatrice.">Continues from<a href="index.php/Kmc00066/kmc00066_vid1.mp4" title="Kmc00066/kmc00066 vid1.mp4">Part 1 of the Oral Testimony of NIKUZE Beatrice</a>.</span></h3>
<h3> <span class="mw-headline" id="Continues_with_Part_3_of_the_Oral_Testimony_of_NIKUZE_Beatrice.">Continues with <a href="index.php/Kmc00066/kmc00066_vid3.mp4" title="Kmc00066/kmc00066 vid3.mp4">Part 3 of the Oral Testimony of NIKUZE Beatrice</a>.</span></h3>
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Discrimination and Violence During Kayibanda's Regime
- Killings in 1970
  - Killing My Uncle Munyambo at Nyamata
- Hiding in the Night
Political Parties and Meetings
- Home Displacement
Death threats of My family
- My Husband
- My Mother
- My Father
- Their Dignified Burial
Access to health care
- My Child who Survived
- King Faycal Treatment
- The Impact of Joining AVEGA
- Working on Hutu-Owned Farms without remuneration
- Helping Each Other in AVEGA
- Getting Married After the Genocide
Justice and the Future of Rwanda
- Reconciliation and the Gacaca Courts
- Message to the Orphaned Survivors

Tables of Contents

Pre-Genocide Experience(Continued from vid1)
- Discrimination and Persecution
  - Flight to the ETO
Genocide Experience
- The Death of My Family
Post-Genocide
- Burial and exhumation
- Health care
- Unity and Reconciliation, Gacaca and Justice
  - Genocidal Ideology in King Faycal Hospital
- The Future of our Country
  - Vision for Young Orphan Survivors

View People

Munyambo
Kayibanda
Habyarimana
Gatabazi
Priest Petrice
John
Nduhira
Bibi
Alphonse

View Places

Nyamata
Bugesera
Nduga
I Kanazi
Kicukiro
Kajeke
Eto
Nyakabanda
Nyanza
Gisozi
Immacule MUKASHYAKA
Rusatira

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Ubuhamya bwanditse

Beatrice: Ariko hari ukuntu twigeze kuganira umbaza ngo mbega mbere y'itsembatsemba n'itsembabwoko naba narabonye iki?
FREDY: Nicyo kibazo naringiye ku kubaza.Watubwiye ko wavutse muri 1967, ibyo aribyo byose har'igihe abatutsi batotezagwa kugeza muri 1973 nubwo wari mutoya hari ibyo waba warabonye watubwira muri makeya ubuzima mwarimo kugeza muri 1990 wenda, noneho tukaza gukomeza.
Béatrice: Yee, muri za 1970 nari umwana harimo abacu batuvuyemo icyo gihe, kuko ariho data wacu witwaga Munyambo, bamukuye murugo bamujyana i Nyamata icyo gihe twabaga mu Bugesera… twabaga i Bugesera.Kuko ndibuka ko nyogokuru yavugaga ngo, ngo: "Kayibanda yavuyeho hagiyeho Habyarimana ngo habayeho ka coup d'état."Ariko icyo gihe twa…ndibuka ko amazu amwe bayatwikagaga twarebaga i Nduga, hakurya batwitse.Data wacu baramutwara bamujyana i Nyamata. Icyo gihe papa yari akiriho, aravuga ngo: "reka tubakurikire tugende turebe iyo babashyira," twaragiye tujya i Nyamata, twamaze kugera i Nyamata ikintu bakoze ndibuka ko hari ibintu by'imiti ibingibi byica amasazi cyangwa ibintu bya kera, bicaga ngo n'ibibugu, baje kubipuriza mu Bantu aho ngaho bari bafashe b'Abatutsi, ndabyibuka ko aribyo byabishe ariko data wacu we bamwishe bari bamukubise ibyo nibyo nibuka. Bari hariya i Nyamata ariko abandi bishwe n'umuti bitaga ngo Tsetse.
Freddy: Ntabwo byigeze bigera ku babyeyi bawe? Ngo babe batotezwa…
Beatrice: Oya ku babyeyi bange, usibye ko papa yaje guhungira i Burundi, yagiye yo igihe kinini yaje mfite imyaka itandatu yari yarahunze. Ubwo nyuma yabwo naje kumva ngo habaye amahoro ariko na… ibyinshi ntabyo nzi byakomeje kuba, ariko icyo nzi ni uko abenshi bari i Nyamata nzi, nibo nabonye bapfuye babafungiye ahantu, ahantu hafunganye cyane, hari harimo abagore abana, abahungu n'abagabo bakuze.
Freddy: Aho i Nyamata se mwarahagumye kugeza …?
Beatrice: I Nyamata, twahabaye ukwezi…ukwezi nibwo batangaga ihumure nyuma duhita dusubira iwacu i Kanazi aho twari tuvuye tuza ahongaho i Nyamata. I Kanazi ahongaho niho twasubiyeyo. Tuvuye i Nyamata.
Freddy: Mugezeyo se mwahasanze iryo humure koko ari ihumuure cyangwa ibindi …?
Beatrice: Nta bindi bintu usibye ko bamwe, abagabo bamwe n' abasore bararaga hanze barare biraririye; gusa icyo nibuka ni uko byageraga ninjoro bakadufata twebwe abana bakadushyira mu rwina, ndibuka ko badushyiraga mu rwina bakadushyiraho ibintu by'amakoma gutyo. Nibyo nibuka.
Freddy: Noneho bigeze mu gihe cy'amashyaka ari nabwo havukaka imvururu..
Beatrice: Ok,nasimbutse,ariko mu gihe cy'amashyaka bwo nyine habaye ibindi bindi nabyo, bakoreshaga za meeting ariko twebwe abanyarwa..rubanda rugufiya ahari, twumvaga yuko nta kibi cyari kiri...cyari kiriho cy'umuhutu cyangwa umututsi. Nkanjye n'ubwo nari narabibonye muri icyo gihe muri za mirongo irindwi [1970],ariko icyo gihe ibintu byari byaranyibagiye sinarinzi kuvuga ngo Umuhutu n'Umututsi, kuko nabonaga abenshi basabanaga bashyingiranaga. Nyuma yabwo ibyo by'amashyaka niho naje kubibona hariho za M.D.R za...za M.R.N.D za P.S.D,za P.D.C mbese amashyaka menshi. Ariko yaje kwikora hamwe noneho P.D.S ,M.D.R aza kurwanya na P.L,arwanya M.R.N.D. Ubwo nibo baje kujijisha abantu nka rubanda rugufiya, bakumva yuko M.R.N.Dbayirwanya bari kurwanya i Kinani. Ariko nyuma ya...Habyarimana yo gupfa niho ya mashyaka yaje kwibumbira hamwe akora ikintu kimwe. Akora Genocide,ariko ubundi mbere bakora amashyaka amashyaka ubwayo niyo yarwanaga. Uri mw'ishyaka P.L akakurwanya ; uri mw' ishyaka P.S.D,bakakurwanya kuko utabaga uva inda imwe, kuko utabaga uri M.D.R power. Hari M.D.R itari power hakaba na M.D.R power. Ibyo byose bya… hari M.D.R yarwanyaga M.D.R power ariyo yarwanyaga na M.R.N.D; P.S.D ariyo kwa Gatabazi aribwo bamwiciraga hariya Kicukiro. Nibwo hari icyo gihe byaje gutera akavururu mu baturage, noneho nibwo batangiraga kugenda bafata abana b'abasore bahuye mu nzira, babica harimo nabo biciraga muri Kajeke, mu gihe cy'amashyaka bakoze za Meeting. Iyo M.R.N.D na M.D.R, byabaga byakoze za meeting, ubwo icyo gihe byanze bikunze ntago haburaga mo abantu bapfaga. Bashombaga abantu b'a- basore ugategereza kanaka araza ugaheba, harimo abagabo benshi bagendaga batwara, bakajya kubica bakabica amahushuka ukumva ngo umurambo wa kanaka uraha n'aha, habaye imvururu cya icyo gihe nabwo.
Freddy: Watubwiye ko umugabo wawe baje ku mutwara ese bamutwaye mu gihe cya Genocide nyirizina cyangwa ni mbere?
Beatrice: Eh ! Bamutwaye mu gihe cya Genocide kuko mbere twebwe twahunze mbere y'amashyaka,amashyaka aba. Nibwo twahunze, Bucyana apfa nibwo twavuye iwacu, turahunga turagenda tujya kuri paroisse,umugabo...umugabo wanjye nibwo yaje kudusanga kuri paroisse twarahungiyeyo. Nyuma yabwo akajya agenda areba hanze uko bimeze, ariko ubwo Habyarimana apfa yapfuye kuri taliki esheshatu turi kuri paroisse,aribwo padiri Peterisi yatubwiraga ngo mujye muri ETO, ubwo umugabo wanjye we yaraye ahongaho.Mu guhungira muri ETO nibwo baje barahamukura ahavanywe n'umugabo witwaga John wo mu Nyakabanda, amubwira ngo naze amuherekeze,ariko kubera ko twari duturanye ariko niwe wamwiyiciye. Yishwe n'uwo mugabo John n'undi mugabo witwaga Nduhira,w'umupagasi wabaga Kicukiro, bamwishe mbere yo kutuzamura ngo batujyane i Nyanza bamuvanye muri ETO.
Freddy: Watubwiye ko babajyanye ese waba uzi urupfu Mama wawe yapfuyemo ?
Beatrice: Mama nyine na...nibyo nababwiye nyine, we yabateye umujinya baramurashe. Yarabatutse cyane baramurasa. Bamurashe mu ijoro ricyeye...baramurashe Inkotanyi bucya zitugeraho.
Freddy: Papa ariko we?
Beatrice: Papa we…papa wanjye yari yarapfuye kera ntabwo yigeze yicwa na Genocide.
Freddy: Ese abawe washoboye kubashyingura mu cyubahiro? Ari abatawe mu cyobo ari aba…
Beatrice: Abenshi twa…narabashyinguye, usibye umugabo wanjye niwe ntazi iyo ari, ntabwo nzi aho ari kugeza na n'ubu. Uwo mwana witwa Bibi, wo kwa…w'umugabo witwa Alphonse niwe wambwiye ati: "umugabo wawe baramwishe." Urabona icyo gihe nta…sinabashije kugirango ndebe umurambo we aho wari uri, wenda ngo mbe navuga ngo bamukurure bamushyira aha n'aha. Niba yarariwe n'imbwa, niba yaragiye mu bimodoka nk'uko batundaga bajya kuroha mu ruzi ntabwo mbizi. Umurambo we nta…si… ntawo nigeze mbona. Kimwe na basaza banjye abongabo. Abenshi abo mvuga nabashije gushyingura; ni ba mabukwe niba databukwe na baramukazi banjye abandi nibo twashyinguriye hamwe hariya i Nyanza kuko benshi bari bahaguye.Bari i Nyanza hariya. Abandi twabajyanye ku Gisozi niho bari. Ariko muri basaza banjye nawe nigeze mbona nago nigeze menya agasheshwe kabo. Kuko bapfanye n'abandi benshi, harimo abana benshi bapfanye nabo bo kwa Kiyonga n'abandi.
Freddy: Ubu se umwana wawe, uwo nguwo musigaranye, afite imyaka ingahe ubungubu?
Beatrice: Afite imyaka cumi n'ine.
Freddy: Ariga, yatangiye ishuri rikuru?
Beatrice: Oya, yize nabi ntabwo… aracyari muri primaire, yakagombye kuba yaba yiga sécondaire ariko rero yagiye yiga nabi kubera amayisha make yo kubura amafaranga yo kumurihirira, akagenda yiga nabi.
Freddy: Wigeze kutubwira yuko igihe wari warakomeretse bakuvura, hari umudamu baguhaye w'umurwaza akaba yaragufataga nabi ndetse akaba yaranagutonekaga. Watubwira impamvu yabiteraga, mbese… nta n'andi magambo yakubwiraga kugira ngo ahite akwereka impamvu koko nyirizina yate…yatumaga, ibyo bintu biba?
Beatrice: Eh! Kubera ko we…bari baramuhaye, urabona intambara irangira abantu benshi bahitaga babaha akazi ko gukora amasuku kwa muganga, bakagira abarwayi bagupanga. We ntabwo yishimira kuko yari abonye ko ari umututsi yari arwajije kandi we yari Umuhutukazi. Ntabwo byamuvuyemo kuba yareka kubimbwira. Kuko ndibuka kuko hari umudamu witwaga Immaculée Mukashyaka.Yarihoreye aravuga ngo: "eh! Ngo narinzi ko ntazongera kubona Umututsi mu maso, ngo none ngiye ku murwaza?" ubwo icyo gihe nibwo nahitaga mbibwira aba inicagi [in charge] babobari babakuriye, nibwo bahitaga bamwirukana ahongaho…ahongaho hariya ku Faycal. Ni nabwo abantu… naje kumukurikirana ho kubera iryo jambo yavuze, baje kumenya ko yari yarakoze Génocide hariya i Gikondo yaricaga abana b'impinja. Nubwo nta kindi yanzizaga, yanzizaga nyine inyoko muntu.
Freddy: Amaherezo ye urayazi? Ubungubu aracyariho…
Beatrice: Amaherezo ye, nuko nzi ko yari afungiwe ku Muhima, niba yaba agifunzwe sinzi sinakomeje gukurikirana Histoire ze.
Freddy: Wigeze kutubwira ko hari umugabo wagiye gukorera, ukimara kugera yo uramukorera hafi ibyumweru bine byose ntiyaguhemba. Ese we yasobanuraga impamvu ataguhembaga?
Beatrice: Ni nkibyo byose, nyine naje kukubwira ko yaje kumbwira ngo: yari azi yuko tutazasubira kubonana… kuvugana nabo, kandi aribo batwiciye. Nyuma yabwo nibwo nyine yanyimye amafaranga mbona yuko aricyo ayanyimiye. Ariko mu kumwaka akazi, namwatse akazi kubera ubuzima nabonaga nta wundi muntu nabonaga w'aho ngaho w'umututsi wabaga afite nk'imyaka, ngo ahinge ngende mwakemo ikiraka. Kuko hari harasigaye abahutu benshi cyane, bamwe bari barasigaye nibo bahingaga. Kujyayo kwari ukwiyahura, nari nariyanze urebye ntago naringiyeyo… kwari ukwiyahura. Nta mafaranga yampaye… ntayo yampaye.
Freddy: Wabayeho ubuzima bukomeye bigeze aho nyuma yaho ukajya muri AVEGA, bakaguha inzu. Wumva hari icyo byakongereye mu buzima?
Beatrice: Byaranyongereye kubera yuko, niyo mbonye nibyo biraka, mbikora mvuga ngo mfite aho ntaha, nta guhangayika. Yego wenda kwibaza ho birashoboka. Mu buzima hari igihe ugera ahantu ukabona ko… ukibaza uti: wenda iyo nza kuba ndi kumwe n'imiryango yanjye ntacyo mba mbabaye. Ntacyo mbabaye wenda tuba dufatanya, ariko byose uragera aho ukabyakira uko wabibonye. Gusa igikuru gusa ni uko mbona ko muri njyewe ikintu cyagabanyutseho, ikintu cyari kimpangayikishije ni aho kuba, nkaba narahabonye.
Freddy: Nagira ngo nkubaze na none, tuve wenda mu buzima busanzwe bwawe bwite. Tukagera no mu rwego rwo kureba n'ibibera hano hanze, kandi ariko byakugiraho n'ingaruka mbi, bikagirira n'ingaruka n'abo muturanye. Ngira ngo nkubaze ku…muri iki gihe hariho kubaka igihugu. Hariho gushaka uko abanyarwanda bongera bakisuganya bakongera bakaba bamwe. Hari ikiriho cyo kumva ko abantu babana hakaba hariho commission y'ubumwe n'ubwiyunge. Wowe wumva ukurikije uko wabayeho, ukurikije uko byagenze mu nzira z'umusaraba zose wanyuzemo, wumva ubwiyunge hagati yawe n'abakwiciye bishoboka?
Beatrice: Mu by'ukuri, ubundi umuntu… ujya kwiyunga n'umuntu, ari uko mwabonanye cyangwa se ari uko yagusabye imbabazi. Tuvuge nk'ubu twebwe, navuga yuko ari Leta yo kwa Habyarimana yatwishe. Usibye nk'abantu bamwe nagiye mbabwira nkabo basirikare bitwa ba John na ba Matayo, abo nibo bantu navuga ko barimo bishe ariko abenshi ni abasirikare abenshi babiteye ni rusatira, njyewe numva muri njyewe numva ko nta kintu mfitanye communication n'abanyiciye nacyo nta na kimwe kindimo.
Freddy: Kuri iyi gahunda yo kureba ukuntu bahana abakoze itsembabwoko, harimo kubacira imanza mu nkiko harimo kubacira imanza no mu nyiko gacaca. Ubona tuvuze ku nkiko Gacaca ubona ko hari icyo zizamara mu rwego guhana abakoze itsembabwoko?
Beatrice: Gusa usibye ko burya abantu, kubahana; kubahana se kubahanisha iki ahubwo? Ntabwo wabashyiramo formation yindi ngo ubavanemo ibintu by'itsemba…by'itsembabwoko ngo banagukundire. Sinumva n'ukundi kuntu ushobora kubigisha kutica. Kuko hanze harimo abakibikora; harimo n'abakibyigisha kwanza ngo bajye… bice. Ntabwo numva ikintu ushobora gukora kugira ngo umuhane, umuhane se, uzamuhana na wawundi yishe agaruke? Ikintu numva ugomba gukora kugira ngo umuhane… umuhane areke kwica ni nk'igiki? Ntabwo mbyumva, simbyumva,kuko hari umuntu wigeze aravuga ati: "ngiye kubazanira umuntu wishe namwe mumukore icyo mushaka." Naramubwiye nti njyewe nta kintu kumukora icyo nshaka, nta nakimwe. Ni mumureke we agende we icyo yakoze azakibazwa n'Imana; kuko nta kuntu n'iyo mwanabafunga, murabafunga barabafungura.Umh…? Murabafunga nti-bareka gukora bya bindi bakoze. Nta nakimwe mbona, no hanze aha njyewe ukombibona baracyafite wa mutima wo kwica. Nta kuntu mbona mwabahana simbizi. Sinzi niba hariho komisiyo yabahana ikabumvisha sinabimenya.
Freddy: Urumva se ku bwawe hakorwa iki? Kugira ngo wumve ko bahanwe cyangwa se n'igihugu cyumve kiruhutse umutwaro?
Beatrice: Burya nta muntu uruhuka umutwaro we ku…ngo nuko habaye iki. Gusa usibye ko atari ikintu cyagashoboka wenda se iyi leta ishobora gukora, naho ubundi ku bwanjye na mbere hose, no kuva nyuma y'intambara irangiye. Njyewe numvaga yuko nta muhutu wakagombye kuba kuri iyi si. Numvaga ko agomba gupfa, akicwa nk'uko abandi babishe. Ariko kubera… ubutabera ibiki mbona, icyifuzo cyanjye numvaga ari icyo ngicyo nta kindi.
Freddy: Ariko ubungubu harimo abirega, bakihana ibyaha. Abo bo ubavugaho iki?
Beatrice: Ntabo nari nabona, ntabo nari nabona wireze ngo yirege icyaha nabonye.
Freddy: Muri make se wumva amaherezo y'igihugu cyacu, wowe uyabona ute? Hakirimo abicanyi; hakirimo ababyemera yuko bicanye, hakirimo ndetse n'imfubyi zikibabaye. Iki gihugu cyacyu kirimo uruzuku rumeze gutyo, wumva amaherezo yacyo… ah'ejo hazaza hacyo wumva wowe hazaba hameze hate?
Beatrice: Mu byukuri uko mbobona njyewe, wenda mpereye nka nyuma y'intambara uko ibintu ngenda mbibona. Niba habagaho ukuri. Habayeho ukuri byose ibintu byashoboka. Habaye abongabo bakoresha… bagishaka gukoresha ibintu byo kwica, babiretse. Njye ndumva habaho amahoro, noneho abantu bagatekana, bakagira umutekano. Na za mfubyi nazo zahangayitse zikabona uko… bavuga bati: "noneho hariho mahoro… nta muntu tugomba guhunga."
Freddy: Urabona ubu ni ubuhamya utanze, kandi ubutanze kuri iyi tariki ariko bushobora kuzabikwa igihe kirekire, bukarebwa n'abana…n'umwana wawe n'umwuzukuru we ashobora kuba yazabureba. Nk'umubyeyi wumva waha ubuhe butumwa, abana b'igihugu bahuye nibyo bibazo, babonye ibyo bibazo byo kuba barahuye n'itsembabwoko. wumva wabaha ubuhe butumwa bwo kubakomeza no kugirango bashobore kwikura mu bibazo bafite?
Beatrice: Yee! Gusa icyo navuga ni uko, abana basigaye bonyine b'imfubyi, ari abakuru bafite abandi bana barumuna babo barera. Njyewe numva nababwira ngo bakomeze bihangane, kuko ibyabaye byarabaye ahubwo bo bashake inkunga ibafasha, icyabateza imbere kugira ngo bakomeze ubuzima bwabo.
Freddy: By'umwihariko ku mwana wawe, nk'umubyeyi we, umwana wawe wumva wamubwira iki cyazamuteza imbere kubuzima bwe bwose.
Beatrice: Gusa usibye ko muri iki gihe hari igihe utashobora kuba utaganira n'umwana wawe ngo akwemerere, kubera ko hariho benshi bafite mu mitwe hafunze ya kare nk'uwanjye. Ndihaho urugero nk'umwana wanye nasigaranye, arafunze afite kare muri we. Kugira ngo umuganirire keretse nibura yisumbuye ho, akaba reba n'ibintu byo hanze uko byifashe, ahari nibwo namuganiriza nkamubwira ubuzima, nuko agomba kwifata. Byaba ari hanze ahangaha cyangwa ari mu busore bwe. Niho umuntu agomba kuba yabona yaganira n'umwana abona ko afite… kuba yamubwira afite ibitekerezo byo kumva.
Freddy: Urabona uba ahantu, ahantu uba ni mumudugudu, harimo abantu muhuje ibibazo benshi. Ese ntacyo mukora, mufatanyije kugira ngo murebe ukuntu mwagenda mugabanura… byabaganura agahinda? Mubyifatamo mute mufatanya mute kugira ngo murebe yuko mwa…kwirwanaho mu rwego rwo kwimara agahinda?
Beatrice: Gusa usibye ko umuntu yimenya kuri we nta…si… kuva nahaba icyenda na karindwi [1997], icyenda n'umunani [1998] kugeza ubungubu ntabwo nari nabona hariho ubufatanye bwo kuvuga ngo urafatanya na kanaka kubyerekeye kuganira cyangwa se, mwibukiranye cyangwa se ngo mugire ikindi kintu mugeraho. Ntabyo mbona, umuntu abaho gutyo kuri we gusa.
Freddy: Ibyo se wumva bihagije cyangwa hari ikindi kintu umuntu yakora? Kugira ngo ako gahinda k'abantu bafite hariya mubana mugira mute…kagabanuke, wumva yuko muganiriye cyangwa hakozwe ikindi byatanga akamaro?
Beatrice: Har'ukuntu wenda ushobora kuba byashoboka kubaho, ariko kandi bitewe na kamere y'umuntu runaka. Cyangwa se imibereho ye…ye ku giti cye.
Freddy: Ubundi se? Wenda cyaba ari nk'ikibazo cya nyuma. Umugabo wawe yitabye Imana ukiri muto, ntabwo wigeze ubushake bwo kumva wakongera gushaka?
Beatrice: Ibyo nabyo ntabwo twigeze tubivuganaho, nyuma y'intambara y'itsembatsemba n'itsembabwoko, nibwo naje kongera kuvuga ngo nshake. Nashatse… nashakanye na murumuna we yabaga hanze, yaje ari umusirikare ariko nawe ntawe uriho yaje gupfa yaguye mu ntambara yo muri Kongo, nawe twabyaranye umwana w'umuhungu afite imyaka irindwi.Ubwo rero kuva ubwo nta…nta kundi numva gutekereza kuba nashaka.
Freddy: Kuri iyi témoignage se cyangwa kuri ubu buhamya bwawe utanze, harimo inyigisho wagiye uha abatoya, nta kindi wakumva wakongeraho?
Beatrice: Ndumva nta kindi nakongeraho.

English translation

Beatrice: While we were talking, you asked me about what I saw before the genocide?
Freddy: That is the next question I was going to ask you; you told us that you were born in 1967. There was a time, the Tutsi were harassed until 1973. Though you were young there are some things you probably saw; can you briefly tell us about your life until 1990?
Béatrice: Yes, in 1970 I was young but still we lost some of our family members. I can remember my uncle [we used to call him Munyambo] he was taken to Nyamata… by then we were living in Bugesera. I even remember my grandmother saying that Habyarimana overthrew Kayibanda; there was a military coup. I remember few houses were burnt in Induga. That is when they took my uncle to Nyamata but my father was still alive. Then dad asked us to follow my uncle in order to see where they were taking them. Then we went to Nyamata. When we reached there, we saw him in a group of other Tutsis who were captured. They sprayed them with an insecticide called DDT, my uncle was beaten to death. That is what I remember. They were there in Nyamata. They killed them using the spray.
Freddy: Did it affect your parents? I mean the harassment or torture.
Beatrice: No, my father fled to Burundi for a long time and came back when I was six [6 years]. The situation had improved though I don't know much about what used to happen. All I know is about the people who died in Nyamata. They were put in a very small building with no opening. They were of mixed ages, women, children, boys and men. They suffocated to death.
Freddy: For how long did you stay in Nyamata?
Beatrice: We were in Nyamata for a month. When they started reassuring us, we went back home to Kanazi, where we came from when we went to Nyamata. We went back to Kanazi from Nyamata.
Freddy: When you reached home, was there peace as it had been announced or there wasn't?
Beatrice: It was peaceful but the men and the strong boys used to patrol at night as for us children, we were put in pit holes and the holes would be covered with banana leaves. That is the best I can recall.
Freddy: What about the time of political parties? The period, which was seemingly the most chaotic…
Beatrice: Okay… I forgot to tell you about it. During that time, several events took place. Meetings were held. Definitely peasants like us did not know that those meetings were dangerous. We never thought anything bad would come out of the Hutu or of the Tutsi. Though I had seen some of their deeds in the 1970s, by then I had forgotten everything. I couldn't differentiate the Hutu from the Tutsi because they used to be very sociable; they would intermarry. Later on, that is after the period of multiple parties. I realized that there were MDR, MRND, PSD, and PDC, generally several political parties. Some of these parties joined and started fighting against others. For example, PSD joined with MDR and were against PL and MRND. Such acts confused people, especially the peasants. We thought that, those fighting MRND were against Ikinani [the undefeatable] but after he died [Habyarimana] all the parties joined and formed a single group. The group that committed genocide. However in the beginning, parties were against other parties. For example, PL and PSD political parties would be fought against, simply because you were not in good terms with the MDR power. There was a political party called MDR, which was different from MDR power. All that confused… MDR was against MDR power; MRND, PSD and Gatabazi who was killed led it. He died in Kicukiro. There was some chaos in the population; boys would be kidnapped from the roads and be killed in Kajeke. Meetings were held during that time of multiple parties. Whenever MRND and MDR would hold meetings, many people would die. Strong boys would be taken and one would wait in vain to see them come back. They would kill young men and their bodies would be discovered later. There was a lot of chaos and that period was dangerous.
Freddy: You told us that your husband was taken. Was it during the Genocide or before the genocide?
Beatrice: Yes, they took him during the genocide since we fled before the killings started. We fled during the time of political parties. When Bucyana died, we left our home and took refugee at a parish. My husband joined us later at the parish. He would sometimes go out of the parish to find out how far things had gone. But after Habyarimana's dearth, he died on the 6th [of April] and we were still at the parish. Father Petris told us to go to ETO. Then a man known as John from Nyakabanda took my husband. He asked my husband to escort him and because he was our neighbor he agreed and they went together. I never saw him again. That was before we were taken to Nyanza. He took him from ETO.
Freddy: You told us that they took all of you; do you know the kind of death your mother died?
Beatrice: My mother offended them; she told them bad words and when they felt insulted, they shot her dead. She was shot the night before the Inkotanyi came to our rescue.
Freddy: What about your father?
Beatrice: My father had died before the Genocide.
Freddy: Did you manage to exhume and rebury your people, those who were dumped in latrines or anywhere else …?
Beatrice: I exhumed the majority of them and reburied them except my husband whom I do not know where his body is up to now. Bibi, Alphonse's daughter, is the one who came and told me, "Your husband has been killed." Due to the living conditions during that time, I never managed to follow up and see where they dumped his body after killing him. Therefore, I don't know if he was eaten by dogs or if he was taken in those cars, which they used for carrying corpses to lakes or rivers. I have never seen his body neither have I ever seen my brothers'. The people I reburied are my in-laws; my mother in-law, my father in-law and others that we exhumed and reburied in general, there at Nyanza because many people died there. Others were exhumed and taken at Gisozi but I have never seen any of my brothers' corpses. They died with several other kids including children from Kayonga's family and others.
Freddy: How old is your child the one who survived with you?
Beatrice: She is 14 years old.
Freddy: Is she studying or has she joined secondary school?
Beatrice: No, she did not study well; she is still in primary school. She would have joined secondary school but due to lack of school fees she was left behind in school.
Freddy: You told us earlier that, when you were sick, you were taken to the hospital and you were given some lady to look after you. But later, she seemed to be bad and at times she would hurt you. Can you tell us the reason why? Did she used to say anything, which would have shown you the reason why she acted like that towards you?
Beatrice: Yes, because after the war they used to employ nurses without being careful and some of these employees hated the Tutsi. Therefore, she was not happy with the idea of looking after a Tutsi patient yet she was a Hutu. She still had the Hutu ideologies and she couldn't avoid telling me what was on her mind. I remember when she saw a certain lady called Mukashyaka Immaculée, she exclaimed, " I thought I would never see a Tutsi's face again but I am going to nurse one." When I heard her saying that, I immediately reported her to their superiors. And then she was fired from King Fayçal Hospital. People became skeptical and investigated her past. Eventually it was discovered that she committed genocide in Gikondo, she used to kill kids. So she just hated me because of my origins and tribe.
Freddy: Do you know what happened to her afterwards? Is she still alive?
Beatrice: All I know as far as her fate is concerned is that she was arrested and put under custody at Muhima but thereafter I did not continue to follow up.
Freddy: You told us earlier that you once worked for a man for four months and he refused to pay you, do you know the cause?
Beatrice: It is for similar reasons. Before refusing to give me my pay, he had told me that he didn't know that we would ever talk with them [Hutus] again. However, I asked him for a job because of the hard life I was facing. Yet in that whole area, there were only Hutu people, all the Tutsis had died. I couldn't locate any Tutsis nearby who was a farmer. It was only Hutus who had farms and could cultivate. Asking for a job from them was so brave; it was a risk. I was desperate; going to them by then, was like a form of committing suicide. They never paid me.
Freddy: You lived a terrible life but after you went to AVEGA and you were given a house. Did getting a house improve anything in your life?
Beatrice: Yes of course. When I get part-time jobs, I work knowing that I have somewhere to live. However, sometimes you think of how life would have been if one had family. You believe that if your family were there, there would be no problems. You would be helping one another. But we accepted what happened and now we are living normally. Actually, my worries reduced because my biggest worry was where to live. And now I got a house.
Freddy: I'd like to ask you other questions that are not related to your own life as such. Let's talk about what is happening out there, which at times may have consequences on your life or on your neighbours. You can see that our nation is in the process of developing. There is also a need for the people to reconcile and become one. There is a National Unity and Reconciliation Commission, which would like to unite people. According to your own experience, not forgetting all you went through; do you think you can unite or reconcile with those who killed your beloved ones?
Beatrice: Frankly speaking, people reconcile after you have met and he or she asks for forgiveness. Personally I can say that, it is president Habyarimana's Government or regime that did the atrocities. Besides some people I mentioned above, like the John and Matthew, these are the only people [who were not in the army] who killed. The rest were soldiers like Rusatira. Personally, I don't believe I have any reasons to communicate with the killers. Nothing at all.
Freddy: In the agenda of punishing the perpetrators, there is judging them at the judiciary courts and others in Gacaca courts. Do you think Gacaca courts are fair, as far as punishing those who committed genocide is concerned?
Beatrice: Punishing them? What can you punish them with? You can never change their ideology of genocide. I don't even think there is any other way of teaching them not to kill. Because out there, they are some of them who still kill, there are even some who are still encouraging people to kill. Therefore, I cannot imagine what can be done to let them know that killing is bad. I don't even know the kind of punishment that can teach them a lesson. Some time back, someone told me that he was going to bring me someone who killed my people; so that I would do him anything I wished. I simply told him it was better not bring him to me, because I could never imagine what to do with such a person. I asked him to let him go and wait for God's judgment. Even if you imprison them it won't change anything. Even out here, I see people still having the same ideologies. I don't know if there is any commission that can teach and change them. I don't know.
Freddy: Personally, which punishment can you suggest that can be close to the solution, so that the country would fell relieved from its heavy load?
Beatrice: There is no one who unloads one's load by doing this or that. What I thought could have been done even before the war; I wished all Hutu would die like they killed others. But because of justice and all that, which I don't believe in ... that was all I wished.
Freddy: But presently they are those who report themselves and plead guilty. What do you think of that?
Beatrice: I have never seen any. I have never seen a person who reported himself about an event I know of.
Freddy: In brief, what do you think about the future for this country, yet there are still killers around and some of them admit what they did? But in the same location, there are orphans who are living in agony. In this country there is a lot of mistrust, suspiscion among people. What do you think the future will be like?
Beatrice: From my point of view, considering life before the war and the way I see things nowadays, if people would be honest, everything would be possible. If people who still believe in killing changed, this country would become peaceful. If it happened that way, there would be security and those orphans who are living in agony, would also be able to appreciate and say, "There is peace, we don't need to hide from some people."
Freddy: This testimony you have given us on this particular date, will be kept for a long time. Several children will see it and your own child or grandchildren may one day see it. As a parent, what message can you forward for the children of the country who faced such problems of experiencing the genocide? A message that could help and keep them strong or build patience in them for whatever they may encounter in the future.
Beatrice: Well, all I could tell those children, especially the orphans who remained without parents yet they have to look after their siblings, they should be tolerant. Because what happened, happened. Instead of looking at the past, they should look ahead for something that would be of use to them. They should always aim at their development so as to improve their life standards.
Freddy: Exceptionally your child. As her mother what can you advise your child that would be of help in her whole life?
Beatrice: It is only that nowadays, some children can never give you an ear. Because some are dull, like mine. I am giving you the example of my own child. One would think there is ice in her head. Talking to her, unless I wait for her to grow up a bit and gain some experience in life. Then I would be able to tell her some things and advise her how to behave in life. She still has to mature up a bit.
Freddy: You live in an area where you have people you share problems. Do you have some things you do together that can reduce your misery? How do you handle the temptation to despair?
Beatrice: Everybody fights on her own. Ever since I started living there; it was in 1997 or 1998 up to now I haven't seen any kind of co-operation as far as exchanging ideas or any other kind of togetherness between the survivors here may be concerned. I have never seen it; everyone lives on her own.
Freddy: Do you think this is enough or there is something else you can do to fight your misery? Do you think exchanging views or talking together can improve anything?
Beatrice: Yes it possibly may improve some things but still it depends on a person's nature or her ways of living.
Freddy: Anyway this may be the last question, your husband passed away while you were still young. Do you have any intentions of remarrying?
Beatrice: Yeah, I never talked about that issue. After the genocide, yes I married his young brother who lived in exile. He was a soldier but unfortunately he also passed away during the Congo battle. We had a kid together, who is 7 years old. From then I haven't thought of getting married again.
Beatrice: In your testimony, there are a lot of messages for children. Do you have any additional message?
Freddy: I guess that is enough.

French translation

Béatrice: …Mais il y a un moment où tu m'as demandé si avant le Génocide je n'avais pas vu quoi ?
Freddy: C'est justement ce que j'allais te demander. Tu nous a dit que tu es née en 1967, les Tutsi ont été persécutés pendant ces temps jusqu'en 1973, tu étais sûrement très jeune mais s'il y a des événements que tu as vus…tu peux nous décrire la vie de ce temps-là jusqu'en 1990.
Béatrice: Oui…durant les années 70 je n'étais qu'une enfant mais certains des nôtres ont perdu leur vie ce temps là parce que je me rappelle bien que mon oncle Munyango a été déporté à Nyamata. Ce temps là nous vivions à Bugesera. Je me rappelle aussi que ma grand mère nous disait qu'après Kayibanda, c'est Habyarimana qui est allé au pouvoir et qu'il y a eu un coup d'Etat. Mais je me souviens aussi qu'on pouvait voir les maisons de la colline Nduga mises en feu…ils ont emmené mon oncle à Nyamata. Mon père était encore en vie et il a dit : « Suivons-les pour qu'on puisse voir où ils vont les mettre. » Nous les avons suivis jusqu'à Nyamata. Mais ce qu'ils leur ont fait…il y avait un insecticide pour tuer les mouches, on disait que ça tuait même les grosses mouches de vallées, ils l'ont alors pulvérisé parmi les Tutsi qui étaient là mais mon oncle lui, ils l'ont tué en le frappant. C'est tout ce dont je me souviens. Ils étaient là à Nyamata mais les autres ont été tués par cet insecticide appelé Tsétsé.
Freddy: Est-il arrivé à tes parents d'êtres torturés ?
Béatrice: Non. Sauf que mon père a fui vers le Burundi où il est resté ; à son retour j'avais 6 ans. Après j'ai entendu dire qu'il y avait la paix mais… je ne sais pas grand chose sur ce qui se passait mais je sais que beaucoup de gens de Nyamata sont morts parce qu'ils avaient été enfermés dans un endroit très petit et non aéré. C'était des femmes, des enfants, des jeunes et même des hommes âgés.
Freddy: Vous êtes restés à Nyamata pendant combien de temps ?
Béatrice: Nous sommes restés à Nyamata pendant un mois puis après quand la situation s'est apaisée nous sommes rentrés chez nous à Kanazi. C'est là où nous vivions avant d'aller à Nyamata et c'est là que nous sommes retournés.
Freddy: En rentrant est-ce que vous avez réellement trouvé la paix ou était-ce seulement… ?
Béatrice: Il n'y avait rien d'autre à part que les hommes passaient la nuit dehors. Et puis aussi quand la nuit tombait, on nous mettait, nous les enfants, dans les bananeraies puis on nous recouvrait de feuilles de bananes. C'est de ça que je me souviens.
Freddy: Ensuite est arrivée la période chaotique du multipartisme.
Béatrice: Au fait j'ai sauté une partie : celle du multipartisme. Pendant ce temps il y avait des meetings mais nous, la minorité, ne voyons aucun problème à ça. Nous ne voyons aucun mal à dire Hutu ou Tutsi. Par exemple moi qui ai vécu les années 70, j'avais certainement oublié mais je ne savais pas dire Hutu ou Tutsi ce temps là parce que les gens étaient solidaires et se mariaient entre eux. Mais lors du multipartisme avec des partis comme MDR, MRND, PSD, PDC, mais après PDS et MDR ont fusionné pour rivaliser le PL et le MRND. On a ensuite mystifié la minorité en disant qu'en rivalisant le MRND, elle rivalisait l'invincible [Habyarimana] mais juste après la mort de Habyarimana, tous ces partis ont fusionné pour faire un seule chose…le Génocide alors qu'avant les partis rivalisaient entre eux. Un membre du parti PL rivalisait avec celui d'un autre, celui du PSD de même parce que les autres n'étaient pas des MDR Power. Il y avait en effet deux MRD : MDR et MDR Power. Tout ça…MDR défiait MDR Power qui défiait à son tour le MRND ; le PSD était de Gatabazi qui avait été tué à Kicukiro, et dont la mort a causé la pagaille au sein de la population. Ils ont alors commencé à tuer les jeunes garçons qu'ils rencontraient en cours de route, à Kajeke aussi ils tuaient… Il y avait des meetings durant cette période de multipartisme et quand le MRND et le MDR faisaient leur meeting, coûte que coûte, il devait y avoir des morts ce jour là. Les jeunes étaient enlevés, tu pouvais l'attendre mais il ne revenait pas à la maison. Les hommes aussi étaient enlevés puis ils allaient les tuer discrètement ; après tu entendais les gens dire le corps de tel est à tel endroit…il y a eu un chaos terrible.
Freddy: Tu nous adit que ton mari a été emporté. Etait-ce durant le Génocide ou avant ?
Béatrice: Il a été emporté pendant le Génocide. Au fait nous avons fui lors du multipartisme, juste après la mort de Bucyana, nous nous sommes réfugiés à la paroisse. Mon mari nous a ensuite rejoint à la paroisse. Il suivait de près la situation à l'extérieur…après, quand Habyirimana est mort, le 06 avril, le père Peteresi nous a dit d'aller à l'ETO. C'est là que John de Nyakabanda est venu le prendre en lui disant de l'accompagner mais puisque nous étions des voisins, c'est lui qui l'a tué. Il a été tué par John et un autre jardinier qui vivait à Kicukiro, Nduhira. Il est mort bien avant que nous soyons partis à Nyanza.
Freddy: Tu nous a dit qu'ils ont été emportés, est-ce que tu sais comment ta mère est morte ?
Béatrice: Maman…c'est ce que je vous ai dit, elle les a énervé puis ils l'ont tirée dessus. Elle les avait insultés puis ils lui ont envoyée des balles dans le corps. Elle est morte la veille…de l'arrivée des Inkotanyi.
Freddy: Et ton père ?
Béatrice: Mon père lui…il était mort depuis longtemps, il n'est pas mort durant le Génocide.
Freddy: As-tu été en mesure de procéder aux obsèques des tiens qui…qui avaient été jetés dans les fosses ?
Béatrice: La plupart oui mais le corps de mon mari… je ne sais pas où il est jusqu'à présent. C'est Bibi, de chez Alphonse qui et venu me dire : « Ton mari vient d'être tué. » Tu vois cette période là…je ne pouvais pas aller voir son corps pour que je demande aux gens de le déplacer et le mettre quelque part ; je ne sais donc pas s'il a été mangé par des chiens ou s'il a été transporté dans les camions qui allaient jeter les morts dans les cours d'eau…je n'en sais rien. Je ne l'ai pas vu, de même que mes frères. Ceux que nous avons enterré, c'est ma belle-mère, mon beau-père, mes belles-sœurs, mais tous les autres, nous les avons enterrés à Nyanza parce que beaucoup de gens y ont perdu la vie. Ils sont à Nyanza, les autres sont enterrés à Gisozi. Mais mes frères eux, je ne les ai pas vu… aucune idée de là où ils sont. Ils sont morts parmi tant d'autres, avec les enfants de chez Kayonga et tant d'autres.
Freddy: Et ton enfant avec qui tu vis, quel âge a t-il ?
Béatrice: Il a 14 ans.
Freddy: Il va école, il a déjà commencé l'école secondaire ?
Béatrice: Non…ses études ne vont pas bien, il est encore à l'école primaire. Il devait être au secondaire mais à cause des problèmes de minerval et de la vie courante…il n'étudie pas comme il faut.
Freddy: Tu nous a dit que quand tu te faisais soigner ta blessure, on avait mis à ta disposition une dame pour t' hospitaliser mais elle ne s'occupait pas de toi et même, elle te faisait mal en dérangeant tes appareils. Pourquoi est-ce qu'elle faisait ça? Est-ce qu'il y a des mots qu'elle te disait pour te montrer la principale cause de son comportement ou ce qui la poussait à agir de la sorte?
Béatrice: Au fait juste après la guerre, beaucoup de gens étaient engagés à faire la propreté à l'hôpital, on leur disait donc de prendre soin des malades également. Mais elle n'était pas contente à l'idée de prendre soin d'une Tutsi puisqu'elle était Hutu. Elle ne s'était jamais délaissée au point de me le dire mais il y a une autre dame appelée Immaculée Mukashyaka…mais une fois elle dit : « J'avais juré ne plus jamais voir un Tutsi devant moi, maintenant je dois prendre soin d'une d'entre eux.» Je l'ai entendu puis je l'ai directement dit aux responsables qui étaient leurs supérieurs. C'est alors qu'elle a immédiatement été chassée de l'hôpital. J'ai continué à investiguer à son sujet à cause de ce qu'elle avait dit, après on a découvert qu'elle avait commis le Génocide à Gikondo, elle tuait les bébés. La seule chose qui la poussait à me détester c'est mon ethnie et rien d'autre.
FreddyL: Est-ce que tu as une idée de ce qu'elle est devenue ? Est-elle encore en vie ?
Béatrice: Tout ce que je sais c'est qu'elle était en prison à Muhima, je ne sais pas si elle a été relâchée après. Je ne me suis plus intéressé à son histoire.
Freddy: Tu nous as dit aussi que tu avais travaillé pendant quatre semaines pour un homme qui ne t'avais pas payé un seul sou. T'avait-il dit pourquoi il ne voulait pas te payer ?
Béatrice: C'est la même histoire… je t'ai dit qu'il m'avait dit qu'il ne croyait pas me revoir…qu'on pouvait encore causer puisqu'ils ont tué les nôtres. C'est sûrement pour cette raison qu'il ne m'a pas payé par après. Mais au fait en allant lui demander de me donner du travail c'est parce qu' il n'y avait aucun Tutsi dans les environs pouvant avoir des vivres pour que je lui demande un petit job. Il y avait beaucoup de Hutu, c'est eux qui étaient restés, c'est eux qui cultivaient. Au fait aller demander du travail n'était pas aller comme tel : c'était un suicide…la vie ne me disait plus rien. En plus il ne m'a même pas payé…rien du tout.
Freddy: Tu as vécu une vie très difficile puis après tu es allée à l'AVEGA. On t'a fait une maison, et-ce que cela a eu un effet positif sur ta vie ?
Béatrice: Ça m'a beaucoup aidé puisque quand je trouve ces jobs, je les fais avec l'assurance de pouvoir rentrer chez moi. Bien sûr se poser des questions ne manquait pas parce que dans la vie il arrive qu'on se demande…qu'on se dit que la vie aurait sûrement une autre couleur si j'avais encore de la famille. Je n'aurais aucun problème, on se partagerait les tâches. Sauf que ma plus grande préoccupation était le logement, maintenant elle est un peu résolue.
Freddy: Si on mettait ta privée un peu de côté et que nous nous focalisions sur la vie courante dont certains aspects peuvent avoir des conséquences fâcheuses sur ta vie et celle des autres…Aujourd'hui on parle de reconstruction du pays, les Rwandais essaient de se serrer les coudes pour se réunifier. Il y a la commission d'unité et de réconciliation…en revenant sur les sentiers de ta vie antérieure, est-ce que tu crois que la réconciliation entre toi et ceux qui ont tué les tiens est possible ?
Béatrice: Franchement je crois que pour s'unifier avec quelqu'un, il faut bien que vous vous soyez vu ou qu'il t'ait demandé pardon…à part ces militaires comme John et Matthieu dont je vous ai parlé…au fait la plupart des tueurs étaient des militaires mais c'était surtout la faute de Rusatira. Personnellement je n'ai aucun contact avec ceux qui ont tué les miens. Aucun processus en rapport n'est en cours, rien.
Freddy: Dans le cadre de juger ceux qui ont commis le Génocide, il y a la juridiction Gacaca. Est-ce que tu crois que cette juridiction aura une importance quelconque sur le jugement de génocidaires ?
Béatrice: Les gens tu sais… sauf que les punir, comment les punir d'ailleurs ? Impossible d'organiser une formation pour enrayer l'idéologie génocidaire de leur tête. Je ne vois vraiment pas comment on peut leur apprendre de ne pas tuer. Parce qu'il y a des gens juste là dehors qui leur enseignent encore qu'ils doivent tuer… Franchement, je crois qu'on ne peut rien faire pour les punir pour qu'ils ne tuent plus. Quelle serait cette punition ? Je ne comprend pas moi. Une fois quelqu'un a dit qu'il allait nous emmener un génocidaire pour qu'on le punisse de n'importe quelle façon mais il n'y a rien que je pouvais lui faire. Je lui ai dit de le laisser partir et qu'il devra rendre compte à Dieu. Parce qu'on les met en prison puis on les relâche, on les met en prison mais ça ne les empêche pas de faire ce qu'ils ont fait avant et puis ils ont encore ce mauvais cœur de tueurs…vraiment je ne vois pas comment on peut les punir, et s'il y a une commission chargée de ça moi je n'en sais rien.
Freddy: Quelle est ta suggestion à ce sujet, pour que le pays soit soulagé de ce fardeau ?
Béatrice: Tu sais on ne se débarrasse pas d'un fardeau aussi facilement parce que…sauf que ce n'est pas…moi personnellement depuis que la guerre est finie, je trouvais qu'aucun Hutu ne devait vivre, ils devaient tous être mis à mort comme ils ont tué aussi mais à cause de la Justice et…en fait c'était ça ma suggestion.
Freddy: Mais aujourd'hui il y a ceux qui s'auto accusent et demandent pardon. Qu'en penses-tu ?
Béatrice: Je n'en ai pas encore vu. Je n'ai encore vu personne s'auto accuser de ses crimes.
Freddy: Que penses-tu de l'avenir du pays ? Avec ces gens qui ont tué, ceux qui admettent leurs crimes…ces orphelins qui souffrent, il y a une sorte de chaos, que penses-tu du futur de la nation ?
Béatrice: Si je considère tout ce temps écoulé depuis l'après-guerre, s'il y a la vérité…avec la vérité tout est possible. Si ces gens qui ont encore des idéologies meurtrières se détournent d'elles, franchement nous aurons la paix. Il y aurait ainsi donc la sécurité, ces orphelins qui souffrent n'auront plus à craindre qui que ce soit.
Freddy: Tu vois témoignage que tu livres, il pourra être visualisé par tes enfants, et même par leurs petits-fils. En tant que mère, que dirais-tu à tous ces enfants qui ont vécu dans tous ces problèmes, quel message de réconfort leur transmettrais-tu pour qu'ils puissent s'en sortir ?
Béatrice: Ce que je dirais sur ces enfants ou ces orphelins qui ont en charge d'autres orphelins plus petits, c'est d'être courageux car ce qui est arrivé est arrivé, qu'ils cherchent au contraire un moyen pour leur permettre d'aller de l'avant dans leurs vies.
Freddy: En tant que mère que dirais-tu à ton fils qui le pousserait à aller toujours de l'avant ?
Béatrice: …Sauf qu'aujourd'hui il est un peu difficile de discuter avec un enfant et se faire comprendre parce qu'ils sont figés. Mon fils par exemple, il est complètement bloqué dans sa tête. Pour lui parler de ça, peut être s'il lève un peu la tête et regarde ce qui se passé dehors, pour que je lui parle de la vie courante, comment il doit se comporter dans sa jeunesse, c'est là qu'il peut comprendre.
Freddy: Tu vis dans un habitat regroupé… avec des gens qui partagent les mêmes problèmes que toi. Est-ce que vous faites quelque chose pour vous débarrasser de votre chagrin ?
Béatrice: Chacun s'occupe de ses affaires, depuis 1997,1998 jusqu'a présent, je n'ai eu le concours de personne en vue de parler de nos problèmes ou de nous raconter mutuellement nos passés afin d'aboutir à quelque chose, rien. Chacun vit dans son monde.
Freddy: Est-ce que c'est suffisant ça ? Ou bien doit- on faire autre chose pour que le chagrin que vous traversez diminue ? Est-ce que vous croyez que discuter ou en faire autre chose ensemble puisse vous être utile ?
Béatrice: C'est possible mais cela dépend de la nature de la personne ou de son mode de vie.
Freddy: Je crois que c'est la dernière question, ton mari est mort alors que tu étais encore jeune. Est-ce que tu n'as plus eu envie de te remarier ?
Béatrice: Je ne crois pas t'en avoir parle mais après le Génocide, je me suis remariée avec son petit frère. Il était à l'étranger, c'était un militaire. Il est mort à la guerre du Congo, nous avons eu un enfant ensemble. Cet enfant a sept ans aujourd'hui. Apres lui, je n'ai plus songé à me remarier.
Freddy: Dans ce témoignage, tu as transmis un message aux enfants. Est-ce que tu voudrais y ajouter quelque chose ?
Béatrice: Je crois que je n'ai plus rien à ajouter.

Identifier mike:	Kmc00066/kmc00066_vid2
Title:	Oral Testimony of NIKUZE Beatrice
Description:	The oral testimony of NIKUZE Beatrice, a survivor of the Genocide Against the Tutsi,recorded by the Kigali Genocide Memorial in Kigali, Rwanda. The testimony discusses early memories of childhood and family, discrimination and persecution of Tutsis before the Genocide, the worst atrocities during the Genocide, suffering and witnessing human rights abuses, surviving the Genocide, and life after the Genocide. The testimony is given in Kinyarwanda.

Language:	kin

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Oral Testimony of NIKUZE Beatrice

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Continues fromPart 1 of the Oral Testimony of NIKUZE Beatrice.

Continues with Part 3 of the Oral Testimony of NIKUZE Beatrice.